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Author Topic: force feeding adams  (Read 327 times)

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Offline big ror

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force feeding adams
« on: October 04, 2018, 02:15:18 AM »
I was eager to watch Rodgers' Wednesday presser this week given his post-game comments on Sunday.  In doing so, I found most interesting his answer to Huber's question, which asked Rodgers why he didn't just throw to Adams 20 times a game.

You can listen to Rodgers' answer here (it starts at the 8:49 mark).

Rodgers mentions that he could, and perhaps needs to, force feed the ball to Adams more than he does.  He goes on to say that the film shows that Adams is consistently open, something Rodgers says he's noted in the past (I recall him saying this a year or two ago).  And although, as he mentions, some plays are designed for and to free up certain players (say, via a rub or pick route), he still has the agency to go in Adams' direction and maybe should.

So here's my question:  should Rodgers be force feeding Adams the ball more than he does?

For the sake of transparency, I'll acknowledge that I'm a big fan of Adams, and I've been so since he was drafted (though, to be fair, I try and give most of the rooks the benefit of the doubt--you know, because fandom and optimism and stuff).  But my hope evolved into confidence during his rookie year; his slant route in particular hinted at his potential greatness.  While, like most, I was disappointed in his sophomore year, I also understood the "why" behind it:  namely, injuries and pressure to account for Nelson's absence.  Yet despite that, and the drops, it was evident by playoff time that Adams was getting healthy and turning the corner.  And the last two years, he's been exceptional.

To be sure, Adams drops the ball more than I'd like from a #1 WR (he has 2 already, though I think that's a generous number).  He also has some of the best footwork in the entire NFL.  Outside of perhaps Antonio Brown, I'm not sure anyone has a quicker release and separation than Adams, an elite trait that mitigates his 4.56 forty speed (interestingly enough, this NFL Draft Profile cites his get off as a weakness, which it may have been in college--and if so, it demonstrates how hard he works, as it's now what separates him from other WRs in the NFL).  In short, and as Rodgers say, Adams "is such a dynamic player" and "needs more opportunities."

But should he force feed him?  Some QBs do:  I think here about Roethlisberger to Brown, Ryan to Jones, Dalton to Green, Stafford to Johnson, among others.  But then I wonder:  do these QBs force the ball to these elite receivers, or do those WRs command the ball because they are elite?  Maybe it's a combination of the two?

Regardless, those two questions beg the question fo whether Adams is elite in the way those WRs are.  And if so, does that make him the best WR that Rodgers has ever played with and thrown to?  And if so, again:  should he force feed?

I don't want my line of reasoning and questioning here to suggest that the answer is clearly yes.  Because I don't know if that's the case.  In saying that, I'm reminded often of the way people talked about Favre's maturation as a young QB and the theory that Favre ultimately benefited from Sharpe's career ending injury because it pushed him to distribute the football.  Perhaps that situation and corresponding argument isn't as applicable, as Rodgers isn't a young QB anymore.  Nonetheless, I always think of Rodgers' style of play as "I throw to the open receiver."  And given his aversion to turnovers, that philosophy not only suits him well but also is one that he practices for the most part and that has yielded him immense success.  Now, that's not to say he always adheres to that doctrine:  given his elite ability, he can and does throw guys open, and his penchant for the back shoulder, to Nelson, during its initial foray hints at his preference to lock on and throw to certain players.

In other words, there's evidence to show that Rodgers takes what the defense gives him and that he targets certain WRs, particularly experienced ones, more than others.

I realize I'm getting long winded at this point, so in sum:  should Rodgers be forcing the ball more to Adams, regardless of playcall?
"BBD.  Boring by Design."

Offline B

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Re: force feeding adams
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2018, 05:12:16 AM »
As usual GREAT POST big ror  thumbsup)
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Online ricky

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Re: force feeding adams
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 07:40:04 AM »
If Adams is open, throw him the ball. As long as there is not a potentially longer gain with a safer throw as an option. How long would that take? Would Rodgers have enough time to scan the field enough? Are we talking about longer, slower developing routes, or shorter passes where he has a step on the defender, and can go for good YAC? Especially if the defense is only using one guy to try to cover him, that is a mismatch waiting to be exploited.

And one observation: many fans (I am NOT calling you out, big ror) thought that Adams was a bust after his second year. Forgotten was the fact that he was gutting it out with an injury. But of course, we hear the same thing about Cobb, the team should trade Allison, lets get the rookies on the field so they can change the tenor of the offense, etc. All interesting ideas.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline scoremore

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Re: force feeding adams
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 09:46:22 AM »
I'll say no.  He should throw to the open guy.  Now maybe they design plays to help in this regard.  I think keying in on one receiver is a mistake.  Det knows the score.  Adams will be bracketed all game long.  Someone else will be open as a result.  Don't think forcing the ball is ever a good idea.  JMO...

Offline dannobanano

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Re: force feeding adams
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 12:23:13 PM »
Could maybe be a verbal ploy by Rodgers to make other teams haze coverage away from (maybe) Graham and towards Adams.

Could be that Adams will become the next Sterling Sharpe for a Packer QB.

Whatever the motivation/misdirection, there's issues with the WR corps this weekend.

Adams (calf), Cobb (hammy), and Allison (concussion) are all listed on the injury report, and since they also resigned DeAngelo Yancey back to the PS, it tells me there may be some long term injury issues at WR.

I hope I'm wrong with that feeling.  twocents)

Offline big ror

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Re: force feeding adams
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2018, 01:20:35 PM »
If Adams is open, throw him the ball.

But that's part of it:  per Rodgers, Adams is open a lot and isn't getting thrown the ball, for whatever reason.  So the logic, according to Rodgers, is that he needs to throw to Adams more because he's constantly winning his routes, which again is a product of his footwork and get off.

So even if Adams is to be used as a decoy on a given play, for example, Rodgers is suggesting he should look that way anyway because chances are he'll still be open because he's that good.

Another way to phrase this question might be thus:  should McCarthy be designing a game plan and calling plays that feature and target Adams more consistently?
"BBD.  Boring by Design."

Offline scoremore

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Re: force feeding adams
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2018, 02:06:30 PM »
If Adams is open, throw him the ball.

But that's part of it:  per Rodgers, Adams is open a lot and isn't getting thrown the ball, for whatever reason.  So the logic, according to Rodgers, is that he needs to throw to Adams more because he's constantly winning his routes, which again is a product of his footwork and get off.

So even if Adams is to be used as a decoy on a given play, for example, Rodgers is suggesting he should look that way anyway because chances are he'll still be open because he's that good.

Another way to phrase this question might be thus:  should McCarthy be designing a game plan and calling plays that feature and target Adams more consistently?

Well yes he's by far our most talented receiver.  Being on the outside I am not exactly sure what the game plan is or the play calls for that matter.  It does make sense to try to get your most talented guys the ball.  That being said the opposing team is going to try to take away your best weapons.  So I can see both sides of the argument.  With all the attention on Adams some other guys might be roaming free.   You can bet if Adams plays on Sunday Detroit is going to have him doubled all game.  So yes I'd try to get creative with routes to try to free him up.  Rodgers need to go to the open receiver and resist the temptation of throwing into double or triple coverage though.

Offline craig

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Re: force feeding adams
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2018, 03:02:09 PM »
This is too complicated for me, I think.  *If* he's actually getting open, sure, throw him the ball.  If he's actually getting open, and he's the open guy, sure, throw him the ball, why not?  I don't care what the play design was, if the guy designed to get free isn't open, then throw it to the guy who is.  And perhaps if a couple of guys are getting open, and Rodgers has-to/gets-to choose, that's a great problem to have?  (In which case, perhaps go to:  the guy more wide open; or the guy further downfield; or maybe the guy you trust the most to make the catch?)

Certainly if Adams is getting open, but Aaron is holding onto the ball and getting sacked while waiting for some play-design to get somebody else open without success, of course go to Adams more. 

The discussion header used the word "force".  I wouldn't apply that to a guy who is getting open.  If Adams is getting open, it's not "forcing" anything to throw to him.  But if he's not open, I don't see much value in forcing it to him. 

By the way, you mention having "two drops".  I'm not sure I remember them all, but his missing that nice TD pass from Rodgers this week was really bad.  It went right off the end of his fingers; it didn't seem like he stretched out to catch it; and he didn't seem to be running hard to get to it, either.  So, *if* the argument is that it was beyond his reach, it's his own fault for not running a little harder to get it within his reach, if that makes sense?  Fortunately Buffalo was already buffaloed by that time, so it made no difference.  But dropping the TD against the Vikings cost us a win.  To drop two TD's within 3 weeks, that's pretty serious, I think.