December 11, 2018, 03:18:12 AM

Author Topic: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?  (Read 1206 times)

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Online ricky

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Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« on: October 07, 2018, 06:48:18 PM »
Is there a growing sense on the board that McCarthy has overstayed his welcome? That he is too set in his ways? That the team's veteran core tuning him out or not getting pumped up by his pre-game talks? Or is there a lack of veteran leadership on the team? It seems Mike Daniels tried to offer that, but if so, it's apparently sputtered out. Is it a lack of vets, and the constant influx of rookies, who are followers rather than leaders? What is the problem in GB? As has been noted, repeatedly, the Packers have a slow start to the season, then pick up the pace, particularly after their bye week, or when their backs are to the wall. The team seems to acknowledge this, from MM to AR and others. So, there is a problem. What is the solution?
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Offline Shinesman

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 07:51:19 PM »
This team lost its fire when Kevin Greene retired. He was always seen being fiery on the sideline in a good way. He was running around and jumping with guys, high fiving, and he would go and hype up the offensive guys as well. He had a presence on the sideline that nobody else provides. People undervalue how much that sort of constant motivation provides. They lack veterans with leadership abilities, or coaches with any fire in them. There is a difference between a leader, and someone who provides constant support. We have a lot of guys who provide support and stick up for their teammates, we do not have any real leaders.
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Offline packdaddy

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 08:33:33 PM »
First, let me say we might not even be having this discussion if we had just one great pass rusher and one more great receiver (okay, and a safety). Because, to borrow from the house flipping business, the Packers have good bones.

But that might be over-simplifying things, and doesn't answer your questions. So I offer these thoughts:

Offense:

Short of regime change, which I'm in favor of because I love this team, I would say at the very least it would be good to bring in a fresh set of eyes and ideas on offense in the form of a true offensive coordinator with complete control of the offense. Think outside the box. I'll throw out an name -- Jeff Brohm, Purdue Head Coach -- (or his brother, Offensive Coordinator Brian Brohm -- yes, THAT Brian Brohm). Just an example.

It's a new era, time for the Packers to join it, while we still have five good years left of Aaron Rodgers.

Defense:

The modern defense is more Linebacker and Safety oriented than in the past. Those would be good positions to bolster going forward.



Offline Shinesman

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 08:50:40 PM »
First, let me say we might not even be having this discussion if we had just one great pass rusher and one more great receiver (okay, and a safety). Because, to borrow from the house flipping business, the Packers have good bones.

But that might be over-simplifying things, and doesn't answer your questions. So I offer these thoughts:

Offense:

Short of regime change, which I'm in favor of because I love this team, I would say at the very least it would be good to bring in a fresh set of eyes and ideas on offense in the form of a true offensive coordinator with complete control of the offense. Think outside the box. I'll throw out an name -- Jeff Brohm, Purdue Head Coach -- (or his brother, Offensive Coordinator Brian Brohm -- yes, THAT Brian Brohm). Just an example.

It's a new era, time for the Packers to join it, while we still have five good years left of Aaron Rodgers.

Defense:

The modern defense is more Linebacker and Safety oriented than in the past. Those would be good positions to bolster going forward.

I agree. I was just thinking about all the players we passed on, and some who didnt quite make it our way, who would completely change this team. Tj watt, he has 6 sacks this year already. Jaylon Smith, he had to rehab, but was arguably a #1 pick. He chased down Watson laterally on tonight's game. He is really becoming a beast in the middle. Myles Jack, no wait needed, they just wanted to be overly cautious. We didnt have a chance at vander esch, but he is being an impact player in his first y eyes at too. We need to really get a primetime player. Stop passing on top tier talent in the draft due to being scared. This team needs a change, but having a couple of impact guys would provide assistance until we get our change
"Tradition! Just because we've always done it that way, doesn't mean that it isn't incredibly stupid."

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 04:37:53 AM »
First, let me say we might not even be having this discussion if we had just one great pass rusher and one more great receiver (okay, and a safety). Because, to borrow from the house flipping business, the Packers have good bones.

But that might be over-simplifying things, and doesn't answer your questions. So I offer these thoughts:

Offense:

Short of regime change, which I'm in favor of because I love this team, I would say at the very least it would be good to bring in a fresh set of eyes and ideas on offense in the form of a true offensive coordinator with complete control of the offense. Think outside the box. I'll throw out an name -- Jeff Brohm, Purdue Head Coach -- (or his brother, Offensive Coordinator Brian Brohm -- yes, THAT Brian Brohm). Just an example.

It's a new era, time for the Packers to join it, while we still have five good years left of Aaron Rodgers.

Defense:

The modern defense is more Linebacker and Safety oriented than in the past. Those would be good positions to bolster going forward.

I agree. I was just thinking about all the players we passed on, and some who didnt quite make it our way, who would completely change this team. Tj watt, he has 6 sacks this year already. Jaylon Smith, he had to rehab, but was arguably a #1 pick. He chased down Watson laterally on tonight's game. He is really becoming a beast in the middle. Myles Jack, no wait needed, they just wanted to be overly cautious. We didnt have a chance at vander esch, but he is being an impact player in his first y eyes at too. We need to really get a primetime player. Stop passing on top tier talent in the draft due to being scared. This team needs a change, but having a couple of impact guys would provide assistance until we get our change

Packers had there chance at Vander Esch.

In fact, you could say the Packers passed on him twice! Once when they traded down with New Orleans, and then again when they traded back up to get Alexander. Vander Esch was the pick following Alexander.

Online ricky

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 11:49:26 AM »
Apparently its not just the people on this board. There very well might be a groundswell of discontent surging in Packer Nation. Of course, if the Packers sneak into the playoffs, get hot (ala 2010) and win it all, will all be forgiven? Or will you, like me, still want to move on?

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/dumpster-fire-in-detroit-puts-packers-at-2-2-1-703
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 11:56:26 AM by ricky »
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 12:24:46 PM »
I too am pissed that McCarthy instructed King to let a ball bounce of his back (allegedly) and give Det the ball at the 1 after a defensive stop.  Instructing Brown to get flagged for taunting after another defensive stop.   Or when he told Aaron to hold onto the ball long enough to allow two separate strip sacks.  But the nail is instructing Crosby to miss 4 field goals and a PAT.   That's some terrible coaching.

Not even going to mention instructing Adams to drop a pass at the 2 yard line this past week or with similar instructions to Cobb and Kendricks and Allison on 3rd down plays in previous weeks


-- Amazing what the players look like when they execute

Offline Gregg

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2018, 12:37:59 PM »
Please, these things even out over time.  You get bad breaks and you get good breaks.  And you cannot rely on your team to make remarkable plays like with Adams.

This division seems kind of close right now.   I don't know who is going to win it really. But one quarter of the way through, I don't think you can really write anyone off.


Offline RT

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 12:46:51 PM »
All this saber rattling about getting rid of MM is a waste of time. When he signed a one year extension last year the Packers management may well have climbed to the highest mountain top and shouted that it was his last year of coaching. He is probably feeling coaching burnout and decided with his family to give it one more year to try to get a second Super Bowl. He has 5 children and they are getting to the ages were a man feels like he is missing the important times of their lives. I've been there and it can eat at a workaholics soul.

Is it just a coincidence that the new OC and DC are both former HC's and may well be frontrunners to takeover in 2019 with little to no step backwards with a transition?

As for starting faster, that will all happen when Rodgers has a sense of urgency. It is in his DNA to be in R-E-L-A-X mode until their backs are against the wall. Which is fine until he is lost to injury and the margin for error has been given away. They will continue to coast until Thanksgiving and then attempt to throw the switch and turn it on to close out the season. All the while the fanbase will continue to ride the up and down rollercoaster that is the Packers regular season, complaining and fretting the complete duration of the ride. 

Offline The GM

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2018, 12:59:09 PM »
There's plenty of time to turn this around.  After SF and the bye we got the Rams and NE.  Tough road, but first we gotta get everyone playing.  Getting everyone healthy and on the field at once: Rodgers hobbled by knee, Jones suspension, King groin, Alexander. Cobb, Allison, Bulaga back, Perry.  These all add up.  We need to get these guys back and on the same page.  They can do this, the pieces are there.  Its going to take a kick ass and take names approach.  Do they have it?  We'll see.

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2018, 01:06:01 PM »
You people never would have allowed the development of Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith without labeling each a complete bust prior to them reaching a few games into their careers and threatening to burn TT at the stake.   How many players would have been listed as better picks than Jaylon Smith before he even played his first game?  The sky would have fallen and the entire organization would have needed to be burned to the ground before Smith saw the field.   "If only TT hadn't wasted such a high pick on Smith we could have had Player X and have a chance for the Super Bowl"


btw - Martinez vastly outperformed both last season and is no worse than their equal this season - 3 more sacks than Vander Esch with 1 fewer total tackle and 2 assists fewer than Smith but with more TFL (6) than either.

How are people questioning Alexander as a worthy pick at this point?  Not impactful?

"I think we’ve certainly gotten that answer,” Pettine said via Packers.com “If you didn’t know who was who and just evaluated our defense the first two weeks, you’d be hard-pressed to say that Jaire’s not potentially our top defensive player, if not one or two. Just his effort, his energy, playmaking ability, he’s been outstanding and Josh isn’t that far behind.”

He didn't fair any worse through 4 games but misses his 5th with injury and now we are replacing him?


I have no pithy comments for TJ Watt.   Other than the guys he would be replacing Matthews/Perry/Gilbert are all still here and the guys King was chosen to replace - Randall/Rollins were sent packing.   Watt would look good in GnG though


Offline packdaddy

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2018, 01:42:10 PM »
I too am pissed that McCarthy instructed King to let a ball bounce of his back (allegedly) and give Det the ball at the 1 after a defensive stop.  Instructing Brown to get flagged for taunting after another defensive stop.   Or when he told Aaron to hold onto the ball long enough to allow two separate strip sacks.  But the nail is instructing Crosby to miss 4 field goals and a PAT.   That's some terrible coaching.

Not even going to mention instructing Adams to drop a pass at the 2 yard line this past week or with similar instructions to Cobb and Kendricks and Allison on 3rd down plays in previous weeks


-- Amazing what the players look like when they execute

And amazing how much better a team sometimes executes after a regime change (e.g. Rams).

Offline packdaddy

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2018, 01:46:17 PM »
My question is: why does it bother some of you here for people to talk about these things, to make uncomfortable suggestions? These are just thoughts, ideas. Nobody gets hurt. When did our world become so easily offended?

Online ricky

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2018, 03:48:49 PM »
All this saber rattling about getting rid of MM is a waste of time. When he signed a one year extension last year the Packers management may well have climbed to the highest mountain top and shouted that it was his last year of coaching. He is probably feeling coaching burnout and decided with his family to give it one more year to try to get a second Super Bowl. He has 5 children and they are getting to the ages were a man feels like he is missing the important times of their lives. I've been there and it can eat at a workaholics soul.

Is it just a coincidence that the new OC and DC are both former HC's and may well be frontrunners to takeover in 2019 with little to no step backwards with a transition?

As for starting faster, that will all happen when Rodgers has a sense of urgency. It is in his DNA to be in R-E-L-A-X mode until their backs are against the wall. Which is fine until he is lost to injury and the margin for error has been given away. They will continue to coast until Thanksgiving and then attempt to throw the switch and turn it on to close out the season. All the while the fanbase will continue to ride the up and down rollercoaster that is the Packers regular season, complaining and fretting the complete duration of the ride.

The additions of Pettine and Philbin was duly noted on the board, and both have been suggested earlier as possible replacements. And as far as MM absolutely being gone, I'll believe it when I see it. Now, as to Rodgers being in R-E-L-A-X mode at the start of the season, he has spoken multiple times of needing to get off to a faster start at the beginning of the seaaon. He is aware of the problem, as is everyone else, including MM.

And ThatGuy284, we all know that the team starts slow, and that some of this is lack of execution by the players. So, where is the accountability? Is it on the coaches, the players, a combination? And that this happens almost every year, who is accountable for that? 

Gregg, yes, things do "even out", but getting a bad call or a lack of execution in a playoff game, for example, is much more impactful than in the second or third game of the season. So, your statement, though true, is also incomplete.

The GM, yes, there is still time to turn things around. But why are we once again being forced to chant this mantra? The question is, why does the team always get off to a slow start, and then, when things look the bleakest, play their best? Or, as Vic was always ranting about, fans should not demand "full consistency", because such a thing was impossible?
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Offline RT

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2018, 04:51:29 PM »
I don't care how many times he has spoken about needing to start faster or not, actions speak louder than words. When games get to being must win games, the urgency will showup and they will start fast. They have started slow in every game except one this year, the one game Rodgers wanted and that was his revenge game with the Vikings.

The Packers will be right there in the hunt for it all in the end as long as Rodgers doesn't get hurt along the way. Like it or not, but the early games on the schedule may be more important to some fans than they are to some of the players. Rodgers included.