October 15, 2018, 03:10:38 PM

Author Topic: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?  (Read 929 times)

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Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2018, 05:04:49 PM »
Philbin's tenure at Miami showed he wasn't really the head coach type. He is smart enough, but is more an enabler than an overall leader (in my eyes anyway).
Pettine has stated (firmly stated) he absolutely hated being a head coach. He really disliked all the administration stuff, the non-football stuff that is a big part of any head coaches job. He daid he went from 90% football 10% percent admin (as a coordinator), to the opposite as a heead coach. He is a really smart dude, so don't expect him to make that mistake again.

Therefore, any change from McCarthy is likely to be an outside candidate. I have no-one to suggest, but I'd like it if many of the remaining coaches were retained under a new HC, especially Pettine. Maybe a new one could find a hot young OC with a cutting edge system, or maybe he has his own modern offensive playbook (in which case Philbin could be retained as well).

I still cannot be sure a HC change IS what is needed, but I'm not happy with where the team is now.
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Offline phanatic1

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2018, 05:10:06 PM »
I don't know guys, it kind of sounds like a lot of excuses to me.  Whether it is the breaks of the game, injuries, draft choices, whatever - can anyone say that the question asked is not a legitimate one or not agree with it?? 

I guess the way I look at it is that this has happened and continues to be something that hampers this team and forces them into these must win games come December.  My feeling is that this team has gotten complacent because the leadership has allowed it to happen. MM is not going to show emotion and the players know there really isn't a threat of losing playing time or worse yet, a roster spot.  And it seems that Rodgers is ok with losing games early in the year to then force the hand of the coaches to give him more control.  It almost appears at times he is ok with exposing young guys with the idea that he can then say they aren't ready and they begin to see the field less and eventually aren't options for him. 

Along with that, the defense has no leader.  The one that should be the natural one - Clay Mathews - has never been a leader and his lack of production doesn't pull others to follow him.  Mike Daniels seems to try, but with some of the things apparently going around about him, he isn't someone others should follow.  Blake Martinez has seen a rise in his game and does produce, but doesn't seem to want to lead at this point. 

With the schedule ahead, things are going to be very telling about the direction of this team.  At LA, New England, Seattle, and Minnesota will test the leadership or expose the lack of it.  These games will give us an indication if changes will be made. 


Offline craig

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2018, 05:24:09 PM »
Is it possible that the late-game offensive burst versus Chicago and Detroit wasn't so much "why did the Packers start slow", as a function of Chicago and Detroit shifting towards more conservative "prevent" defenses in the 2nd halves?  Some coordinators tone back the blitzing and stuff when they're up by multiple TD's, maybe? 

Maybe thinking the Packers should be able to move the ball all 4 quarters like they did 2nd-halves in those games isn't actually realistic or fair?  Lots of things flow differently when it's 24-0?

Offline scoremore

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2018, 05:33:23 PM »
Philbin's tenure at Miami showed he wasn't really the head coach type. He is smart enough, but is more an enabler than an overall leader (in my eyes anyway).
Pettine has stated (firmly stated) he absolutely hated being a head coach. He really disliked all the administration stuff, the non-football stuff that is a big part of any head coaches job. He daid he went from 90% football 10% percent admin (as a coordinator), to the opposite as a heead coach. He is a really smart dude, so don't expect him to make that mistake again.

Therefore, any change from McCarthy is likely to be an outside candidate. I have no-one to suggest, but I'd like it if many of the remaining coaches were retained under a new HC, especially Pettine. Maybe a new one could find a hot young OC with a cutting edge system, or maybe he has his own modern offensive playbook (in which case Philbin could be retained as well).

I still cannot be sure a HC change IS what is needed, but I'm not happy with where the team is now.

Agree.   MM is feeling the heat.  Can tell by his presser.  As a head coach he's fine.  They always start out slow this is nothing new.  Probably because we have a high roster turnover with a lot of young players every year.  They always play better when their is a sense of urgency.  Think we are now to that point.  Also the Packers all in all have played pretty well on balance.  What has been killing them are turnovers and penalties.  Something that is out of character for an MM coached team.

Firing MM would be a mistake IMO.  He's a fine coach and has good coordinators underneath him.  The coaching staff is not the problem.   It's not how you start but how you finish.  This is true.  So let's see how the season shakes out.  At least they are relatively healthy. 

The Packers have been on top for a really long time.  We have been drafting late every year.  The NFL is designed for parity.  It's tough to stay on top.  I don't think the Packers have the horses to compete with the top teams in the league right now.  Thus my expectations are pretty low for this season.  Possibly a playoff berth and a win not much more.  If they fail to make the playoffs I won't be horribly surprised either.  That's ok.  Don't think they should fire MM even if the Pack fails to make a run. 

Gute may need a few years to rebuild the roster. Guess what I am saying is it's the talent not the coaching.  All that being said the season is young and they will improve going forward.  Last time I said they didn't have the horses was in 2010.  Injuries across the board.  They went on and won a Superbowl.  So there you go.  One other comment is team chemistry.  Pack needs to find that "it" factor.  Aaron calls it "identity"

Online ricky

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2018, 05:48:59 PM »
Is it possible that the late-game offensive burst versus Chicago and Detroit wasn't so much "why did the Packers start slow", as a function of Chicago and Detroit shifting towards more conservative "prevent" defenses in the 2nd halves?  Some coordinators tone back the blitzing and stuff when they're up by multiple TD's, maybe? 

Maybe thinking the Packers should be able to move the ball all 4 quarters like they did 2nd-halves in those games isn't actually realistic or fair?  Lots of things flow differently when it's 24-0?

Absolutely. Your observation that changed defenses to protect a lead can lead to more offensive production by the opponent is very true. But this raises more questions. Why does the offense seem to be unable to sustain drives against regular defensive looks? Is the playcalling getting predictable? Is the offense less innovative? In particular, are the routes being run by receivers the same as years past, and therefore too predictable?

scoremore, you also make an interesting point. But I'll just write "New England Patriots" and ask, why not in GB?

"The Packers have been on top for a really long time.  We have been drafting late every year.  The NFL is designed for parity.  It's tough to stay on top.  I don't think the Packers have the horses to compete with the top teams in the league right now.  Thus my expectations are pretty low for this season.  Possibly a playoff berth and a win not much more.  If they fail to make the playoffs I won't be horribly surprised either.  That's ok.  Don't think they should fire MM even if the Pack fails to make a run."
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 05:52:17 PM by ricky »
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Offline RT

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2018, 05:51:44 PM »
Is it possible that the late-game offensive burst versus Chicago and Detroit wasn't so much "why did the Packers start slow", as a function of Chicago and Detroit shifting towards more conservative "prevent" defenses in the 2nd halves?  Some coordinators tone back the blitzing and stuff when they're up by multiple TD's, maybe? 

Maybe thinking the Packers should be able to move the ball all 4 quarters like they did 2nd-halves in those games isn't actually realistic or fair?  Lots of things flow differently when it's 24-0?

Good point craig and absolutely a thing. We have all heard people say over the years that 'they should start the game like they are down 21-0', but that would only work if they convinced the other team to start the game thinking like they were up 21-0.

Online Bignutz

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 12:53:23 AM »
All this saber rattling about getting rid of MM is a waste of time. When he signed a one year extension last year the Packers management may well have climbed to the highest mountain top and shouted that it was his last year of coaching. He is probably feeling coaching burnout and decided with his family to give it one more year to try to get a second Super Bowl. He has 5 children and they are getting to the ages were a man feels like he is missing the important times of their lives. I've been there and it can eat at a workaholics soul.

Is it just a coincidence that the new OC and DC are both former HC's and may well be frontrunners to takeover in 2019 with little to no step backwards with a transition?

As for starting faster, that will all happen when Rodgers has a sense of urgency. It is in his DNA to be in R-E-L-A-X mode until their backs are against the wall. Which is fine until he is lost to injury and the margin for error has been given away. They will continue to coast until Thanksgiving and then attempt to throw the switch and turn it on to close out the season. All the while the fanbase will continue to ride the up and down rollercoaster that is the Packers regular season, complaining and fretting the complete duration of the ride.

Heard John Madden say the same thing. Stay in the race until about Thanksgiving, Then get hot. That's the way to win a superbowl. Kind of the way we won our last one! :)

Offline Shinesman

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2018, 09:47:35 PM »
You guys are assuming a team can just dictate when it gets hot. If that were the case, all teams would be hot all the time. That philosophy makes no sense. Maybe, stay around in Hope's of getting hot. But there is no guarantee you WILL get hot.
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Online The GM

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2018, 10:48:35 PM »
You guys are assuming a team can just dictate when it gets hot. If that were the case, all teams would be hot all the time. That philosophy makes no sense. Maybe, stay around in Hope's of getting hot. But there is no guarantee you WILL get hot.
No guarantee they can get hot.  Lots of rookies from last year's fiasco (King, Jones, Adams) and all the rookie DBs and WRs this year don't even know what getting hot in the NFL is.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 10:49:31 PM by The GM »

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2018, 06:46:08 AM »
You guys are assuming a team can just dictate when it gets hot. If that were the case, all teams would be hot all the time. That philosophy makes no sense. Maybe, stay around in Hope's of getting hot. But there is no guarantee you WILL get hot.
No guarantee they can get hot.  Lots of rookies from last year's fiasco (King, Jones, Adams) and all the rookie DBs and WRs this year don't even know what getting hot in the NFL is.

If you have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL (as the Packers have done for many years), getting hot later in the season (relative to how they have been playing) is not entirely surprising. All the young guys are steadily getting better through the season with the experience, so that collective improvement can just be enough to fuel a boost in performance. More veteran rosters (especially where most of the starters  are vets) would show less improvement through the season. So, while there are no guarantees, it at least makes some sense that the Pack get better later in the season.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2018, 09:40:49 AM »
Or, all this years rookies (Alexander, Jackson, Burks, MVS, etc) could hit that proverbial "Rookie Wall" sometime in Dec. and just fold like a deck of cards.

No one knows anything for sure at this juncture..............except that they are a .500 team.

Offline Tony

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2018, 09:40:04 PM »
I don't care how many times he has spoken about needing to start faster or not, actions speak louder than words. When games get to being must win games, the urgency will showup and they will start fast. They have started slow in every game except one this year, the one game Rodgers wanted and that was his revenge game with the Vikings.

The Packers will be right there in the hunt for it all in the end as long as Rodgers doesn't get hurt along the way. Like it or not, but the early games on the schedule may be more important to some fans than they are to some of the players. Rodgers included.
No offense, but your assumption that these early games don’t have as much urgency to Rodgers and the team - because they’re not must win games - is horse-hocky.  Rodgers has expressed his frustrations with the sputtering offense, among other things.  He hasn’t been sharp and he’s frustrated with himself, with MM, and the team.  His demeanor, body language, comments, overall attitude point to a guy who’s frustrated.  That doesn’t happen if he’s content with just rolling through the early season games.  Truth is, his back has been against the wall these first five games, and I highly doubt that he’s content and not feeling a sense of urgency at this moment.  Proof?  In past years at around this time of the season, he’s been cool and calm - in spite of the team’s woes.  RELAX and such.  This year?  He’s anything but relaxed, happy, and confident.  Maybe he’s more concerned with his knee injury than he’s letting on.  Maybe he’s more concerned with his own play, and inability to get back into rhythm with his team and the speed of the game since he’s taken very few live game snaps in over a year.  I’ll say it again, he’s anything but relaxed and confident - his back is already against the wall, he’s frustrated, and wants nothing more than to be rolling through this part of the schedule.
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Offline RT

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2018, 07:55:49 AM »
I hear you Tony and you may well be right, BUT actions speak louder than words and his actions suggest that the urgency was not there. Or the preparation. People will point to the passing yards and point to the words he has spoken and on the surface I can see why that conclusion could be reached. But in watching the all-22 this week, I was embarrassed for Rodgers and believe he is also with his performance against the Lions (and for most of the season so far). There was many, many plays sunday where WR's were open by 10 yards or more and Rodgers continuously either missed seeing them or would not throw to them.

Rodgers is a highly intelligent individual and is well aware of when to add some lip service to deflect. Rodgers said yesterday that he thought the Packers were very close, well they are. The only piece missing is QB with a sense of urgency and they may have finally reach that point for him. With the next few games against California teams (which always seems to be important games to Rodgers) and his hopefully wanting to may amends for his play so far, well just maybe we will start to see an all in QB.

Rodgers is the best QB that I have ever seen play the game, but I don't believe winning ever game, ever week is that important to him. Winning campionships yes, winning some ho-hum regular season game in the first half of the season, no. And that is probably the difference between Brady and Rodgers, Brady would step on his grandmothers neck to win a preseason game. Rodgers picks and chooses which games are important to win. As Packers fans we just need to understand to R-E-L-A-X until Rodgers decides its important. And hope he doesn't get injured again. 

Online ricky

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Re: Why the slow starts every game early in the year?
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2018, 05:22:58 PM »
Read this over at PFT and thought, "Wow, that sounds like what a lot of fans are saying about the Packers!" Unfortunately, not solutions, just problems. Oh well, maybe misery loves company? Or is there a similarity between the two teams? Starting with reliance on a star QB?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/10/14/andrew-luck-im-not-discouraged/

Which leads me to another question as to why the Packers are off to slow starts so often. I think RT might well be onto something important with his idea that Rodgers simply is too laid back, and feels he can "turn it on" when needed. But, there is also the possibility that, added to that, is that AR has simply gone the "Favre route", where he is actually bigger than the team, and therefore feels he can tune out the coach and there will be no accountability. What is MM going to do? Bench Rodgers for a half to show him who's boss? Then again, MM did what I didn't think was possible- he made Favre accountable. So, if there is a new coach, it needs to be someone strong enough to rein in Rodgers and make him more of a rhythm QB, rather than constantly extending the play in hopes of getting that big chunk play. JMO
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