November 15, 2018, 11:47:36 PM

Author Topic: Twelve steps to fix the Packers  (Read 1340 times)

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Online marklawrence

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Online Whiskey Sam

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 08:09:28 AM »
Can't disagree with this. The Packers' problems are obvious, too, since every media outlet is seeing the same things which makes it baffling that the organization seems blind to them. Gutekunst did little to improve an already flawed roster inherited from Thompson. Awful lot like the end of Favre's career where he begged them to bring in a few big free agents that would put them over the top and show a commitment to "win now". Rodgers' clock is ticking, and we're still building for the future. McCarthy has been coasting for years and should have been gone after the Seattle fiasco. That no one was fired for that illustrated the lack of accountability within the organization. That seems to be a major problem in GB. No one is ever held accountable for poor performance in the front office or coaching staff so why should the players care about making the same mistakes week after week?

Offline scoremore

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2018, 09:05:39 AM »
Can't disagree with this. The Packers' problems are obvious, too, since every media outlet is seeing the same things which makes it baffling that the organization seems blind to them. Gutekunst did little to improve an already flawed roster inherited from Thompson. Awful lot like the end of Favre's career where he begged them to bring in a few big free agents that would put them over the top and show a commitment to "win now". Rodgers' clock is ticking, and we're still building for the future. McCarthy has been coasting for years and should have been gone after the Seattle fiasco. That no one was fired for that illustrated the lack of accountability within the organization. That seems to be a major problem in GB. No one is ever held accountable for poor performance in the front office or coaching staff so why should the players care about making the same mistakes week after week?

Gute did a very good job this year.  Done little?  Totally disagree.  He had an excellent draft and brought in several FA's.  Rome wan't built in a day.  As for MM and Seattle he was playing the odds.  Let's see how the season plays out before jumping on the fire MM train.  I'll stand up for him he is an very good coach.  Agree with some points in the article but for the most part see it as an overreaction.  Cut Perry?  No.  Rebuild right side of the line?  Yes.  Kick returner? Yes.  Fire MM NO!  Jones can't pass block.  Add to WR?  Depends on Cobb.  Matthews should be re signed and moved inside.  Zook?  yes special teams have been a problem all year.  He needs to get this fixed now otherwise show him the door. 

I'll add Packer fans have become spoiled.  Be careful what you wish for.  I am not in the blow it up camp.  Do we have the horses this year?  Probably not we'll need another year to add a few more pieces.  Remember also Aaron is playing injured.  Very tough schedule coming up if Pack can take one of the next 2 games we'll be ok.  A lot of season left let's see how it shakes out.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 09:20:08 AM by scoremore »

Offline skcusICH

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2018, 12:44:36 PM »
It's easy to say replace this guy and that guy and the team will be better. Every team and fan base recognizes that with their team.

This writer wants to replace 2 starting OLB's, a starting WR, a starting FS, a starting CB, a starting RT, a starting RG, your top backup tackle, a backup OLB, and find a return guy. If it was as simple as signing this guy and drafting that guy, every GM would be successful and teams wouldn't have holes. Finding a guy who is better than you already have isn't cut and dry.

It's going to take more draft capital and cap money than is available to actually see a meaningful improvement in all those areas.

It's a revolving door around the league. Every team faces it. You get one weak position group shored up and now you're facing the task of shoring up another weak group the following year. It's like road construction. It never ends. Rinse and repeat. You complete one area and it's always ready to start in another area. That's the NFL salary cap and structure at work. It's a good thing in my opinion.


Online Whiskey Sam

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2018, 12:45:48 PM »
Can't disagree with this. The Packers' problems are obvious, too, since every media outlet is seeing the same things which makes it baffling that the organization seems blind to them. Gutekunst did little to improve an already flawed roster inherited from Thompson. Awful lot like the end of Favre's career where he begged them to bring in a few big free agents that would put them over the top and show a commitment to "win now". Rodgers' clock is ticking, and we're still building for the future. McCarthy has been coasting for years and should have been gone after the Seattle fiasco. That no one was fired for that illustrated the lack of accountability within the organization. That seems to be a major problem in GB. No one is ever held accountable for poor performance in the front office or coaching staff so why should the players care about making the same mistakes week after week?

Gute did a very good job this year.  Done little?  Totally disagree.  He had an excellent draft and brought in several FA's.  Rome wan't built in a day.  As for MM and Seattle he was playing the odds.  Let's see how the season plays out before jumping on the fire MM train.  I'll stand up for him he is an very good coach.  Agree with some points in the article but for the most part see it as an overreaction.  Cut Perry?  No.  Rebuild right side of the line?  Yes.  Kick returner? Yes.  Fire MM NO!  Jones can't pass block.  Add to WR?  Depends on Cobb.  Matthews should be re signed and moved inside.  Zook?  yes special teams have been a problem all year.  He needs to get this fixed now otherwise show him the door. 

I'll add Packer fans have become spoiled.  Be careful what you wish for.  I am not in the blow it up camp.  Do we have the horses this year?  Probably not we'll need another year to add a few more pieces.  Remember also Aaron is playing injured.  Very tough schedule coming up if Pack can take one of the next 2 games we'll be ok.  A lot of season left let's see how it shakes out.

Ah, the ever popular, "Packers fans are spoiled" excuse for the team underperforming year after year. Nevermind that during McCarthy's tenure, the Colts, Giants, Patriots, Steelers, Seahawks, and Broncos have been to more Super Bowls despite Green Bay having two Hall of Fame QBs in that span. McCarthy is a mediocre coach, at best, who has been carried by two premier QBs. The moment they've been gone, his teams aren't even competitive. He hasn't developed a single backup in a decade who could even perform at a journeyman level. He would be the most overrated coach in the league except he never comes up in any discussions of best coaches currently coaching.

Rome wasn't built in a day? How many draft picks have we spent on the defense over the last few years and still have zero pass rush, no safeties who can figure out where they're supposed to be, or any game-changing talent on the defensive side of the ball. We have watched running backs routinely run around the end and gouge them for big gains this season because there is no speed on the defense. But guys make up for it by not being able to tackle when they're in position. If Gute were serious about winning now, he would have made the move for Mack and/or Thomas and found a way to reduce the cost of overpaid veterans like Cobb and Matthews. This organization has been far too content for far too long to win a crappy division every year and get bounced in the second round of the playoffs while thinking they're the Patriots of the NFC.

Offline scoremore

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2018, 05:15:58 PM »
Colts?  Giants?  Seattle? how would you like to be a fan of them right now?  Gute has had 1 year.  Give the man a chance.   We have been a perennial playoff team for what 10 years now?  Missed last year for obvious reasons.  It's fine to want more.  It would be great if we could win a Superbowl every year.  Not going to happen. MM has been a highly successful coach.  The Packers with the exception of last year are always in the hunt.  Don't you think Gute was in discussions on Mack?  I am sure he tried.  We couldn't match what Chicago offered.  We just signed Aaron remember? 

Yes many Packer fans are spoiled.  Hit a little bump in the road and it's time to blow it all up.  People calling for MM's head.  Unbelievable to me really.  We have a new Defensive Coordinator.  It takes time for players to adjust to the new scheme.  The D will come around.  On offense we also have a new coordinator.  A number of young players particularly at WR.  Graham is also new.  Takes time for these guys to hit their stride.   Oh and not to mention Aaron is seriously limited with the knee.   Special teams several young players as well.  No excuse for the penalties.  Listened to MM's presser he's well aware of the issue they will get it cleaned up.

You talk of reducing salaries of Cobb and Matthews.  Really think it is all that easy?  What if they refuse?  Cut them?  Both guys are up at the end of the year.  I would like both of them back as they are still good players.  At their current salaries no. 

One last point you state the Packers are content.  We just changed GM, Offensive, and Defensive coordinators.  The Packers clearly are not content. 

Online Whiskey Sam

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 05:57:08 AM »
Colts?  Giants?  Seattle? how would you like to be a fan of them right now?  Gute has had 1 year.  Give the man a chance.   We have been a perennial playoff team for what 10 years now?  Missed last year for obvious reasons.  It's fine to want more.  It would be great if we could win a Superbowl every year.  Not going to happen. MM has been a highly successful coach.  The Packers with the exception of last year are always in the hunt.  Don't you think Gute was in discussions on Mack?  I am sure he tried.  We couldn't match what Chicago offered.  We just signed Aaron remember? 

Yes many Packer fans are spoiled.  Hit a little bump in the road and it's time to blow it all up.  People calling for MM's head.  Unbelievable to me really.  We have a new Defensive Coordinator.  It takes time for players to adjust to the new scheme.  The D will come around.  On offense we also have a new coordinator.  A number of young players particularly at WR.  Graham is also new.  Takes time for these guys to hit their stride.   Oh and not to mention Aaron is seriously limited with the knee.   Special teams several young players as well.  No excuse for the penalties.  Listened to MM's presser he's well aware of the issue they will get it cleaned up.

You talk of reducing salaries of Cobb and Matthews.  Really think it is all that easy?  What if they refuse?  Cut them?  Both guys are up at the end of the year.  I would like both of them back as they are still good players.  At their current salaries no. 

One last point you state the Packers are content.  We just changed GM, Offensive, and Defensive coordinators.  The Packers clearly are not content.

Thank you for confirming everything I said. This is a perfect example of the kind of complacency among certain Packer fans who always parrot McCarthy's excuses for why the team underperforms every year. Celebrating making the playoffs each year is for losers like the Vikings. The Packers like to pretend they're an elite franchise that is a legitimate contender every year like the Patriots or Steelers. In reality, they're a one-dimensional team (all offense, no defense) with a one-dimensional offense. Pretty much Marino's Dolphins of the 21st century. But you're more than happy to waste the latter half of Rodgers' career just like Favre's was as long as no one criticizes the organization.

Online marklawrence

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 11:16:56 AM »
Thank you for confirming everything I said. This is a perfect example of the kind of complacency among certain Packer fans who always parrot McCarthy's excuses for why the team underperforms every year. Celebrating making the playoffs each year is for losers like the Vikings. The Packers like to pretend they're an elite franchise that is a legitimate contender every year like the Patriots or Steelers. In reality, they're a one-dimensional team (all offense, no defense) with a one-dimensional offense. Pretty much Marino's Dolphins of the 21st century. But you're more than happy to waste the latter half of Rodgers' career just like Favre's was as long as no one criticizes the organization.

Yes, it's all Thompson's fault for drafting in the high 20s every year. If we had had a few picks in the top 10, like MN and Chi, we would be in much better shape. But did Thompson get us a high pick? No. Never. I mean, seriously, how long has it been since we drafted in the top 3? It's just inexcusable how complacent they were about accepting low draft picks every single year.
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Offline Premontre1969

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 12:33:16 PM »


Yes, it's all Thompson's fault for drafting in the high 20s every year. If we had had a few picks in the top 10, like MN and Chi, we would be in much better shape. But did Thompson get us a high pick? No. Never. I mean, seriously, how long has it been since we drafted in the top 3? It's just inexcusable how complacent they were about accepting low draft picks every single year.
[/quote]

Low picks are the result of a winning record. But I agree with the sentiment that Thompson could’ve made much better picks with the draft positions that resulted from those records. Hopefully  our new management structure will bear better fruit, given the draft structure of the NFL.

Online Whiskey Sam

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 01:16:02 PM »
Thank you for confirming everything I said. This is a perfect example of the kind of complacency among certain Packer fans who always parrot McCarthy's excuses for why the team underperforms every year. Celebrating making the playoffs each year is for losers like the Vikings. The Packers like to pretend they're an elite franchise that is a legitimate contender every year like the Patriots or Steelers. In reality, they're a one-dimensional team (all offense, no defense) with a one-dimensional offense. Pretty much Marino's Dolphins of the 21st century. But you're more than happy to waste the latter half of Rodgers' career just like Favre's was as long as no one criticizes the organization.

Yes, it's all Thompson's fault for drafting in the high 20s every year. If we had had a few picks in the top 10, like MN and Chi, we would be in much better shape. But did Thompson get us a high pick? No. Never. I mean, seriously, how long has it been since we drafted in the top 3? It's just inexcusable how complacent they were about accepting low draft picks every single year.

Amazing how the Broncos, Steelers, and Patriots can consistently have better success drafting at the bottom, and we can't. How many draft picks have we spent on defense over the last five years and have zero playmakers to show for it? They have gotten lit up routinely for years. We haven't been in the top 10 in points allowed since 2010, and we've been in the lower third of the league in points allowed 3 of the last 5. That's not even average. We have not had a sustained run of success. We have been good enough to win a crappy division then get bounced by better teams before making the Super Bowl. Seattle and Denver, in a much smaller window, had a better run than we've had during Rodgers' tenure, at least making it to two Super Bowls in three years. We've been to two in 20 years, and my list of teams with more success was limited McCarthy's tenure. If I had gone back 20 years to cover our last two appearances, there are several other teams you could have added to my list. McCarthy can say he's a highly successful coach all he likes, but highly successful coaches don't have to go around telling everyone else. Who's he trying to convince, the media or himself?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 01:18:11 PM by Whiskey Sam »

Online marklawrence

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2018, 02:39:04 PM »
The pats do not have a particularly awe-inspiring draft record. Belichick is a genius at grabbing role-playing vets and adjusting his scheme to put them in a place to succeed
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Offline TAYLORBOY

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2018, 06:25:02 AM »
The pats do not have a particularly awe-inspiring draft record. Belichick is a genius at grabbing role-playing vets and adjusting his scheme to put them in a place to succeed

Belichick is usually ahead of the curve when it comes to changes.


Instead of high priced WRers he is using a TE and a RB to have a good passing attack targeting the weakest unit of a defense in pass defense....the LBers

Opposite is Packers trying to improve LBers who can cover to shore up middle of field in pass defense...


We chase and others lead..


McCarthy says he wants to run the ball and work the middle of the field..but we still throw the ball outside the numbers consistantly and run very little

Offline PackerJoe

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2018, 09:17:23 AM »
Mentioned this on another thread.  We didn't move up two spots for Ryan Shazier back in 2014, we didn't move up last year despite 13 picks ahead of the Bears for Joaquan Smith and we didn't draft Watt when he fell to us.  Why TT/former defensive Coordinator/McCarthy have no idea about drafting talented LB's who are game changers.

WE have had marginal success in the draft!!!!  failure rate has been about 75%  I had a real hard time with picking a punter in the 5th rd when we had other needs.  I was perfectly happy with our punter from last year.
We're not that far away, but if we keep sitting on our thumbs and do nothing, we will waste Rodgers, much like Favre!

Perfect example, Bruce Irvin can be obtained for a 5th rd pick.  We can trade Dix today for another pass rusher (kid from Jacksonville comes to mind).  At the end of the year when we are 8-8 and miss the playoffs again, we'll look back and say, would've, could've, should've!! 

Just my opinion  DIX and PERRY are worthless!!!!!!!

Offline WTX_Cheese

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2018, 10:00:02 AM »
I would counter/agree with this:

1.) Nicky Perry - He's more of a role player at this point. Probably need to cut our losses after this season.

2.) Aaron Jones - He should be getting no fewer than 15 touches per game.

3.) Right side of the OL - We had drafted Cole Madison but through no fault to either party he has yet to play/practice. Gutey dropped the ball at RG but remember, Bulaga is still coming off an ACL injury. I would give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

4.) Kick returner - The Packers don't appear to have a solid plan at KR/PR this year.

5.) Receiving Corps - The claim that we need to re-stock the receving corps is laughable. That's exactly what Gutey did this offseason. Davante is "all-world" good, Cobb is a solid slot guy, Allison is a solid outside guy, I believe Kumerow can be really solid when he comes back, MVS is starting to take snaps away from Allison, and ESB has flashed as well. It may not show right this second, but in a year or two, this receiving corps is going to be GOOD.

6.) Defensive Free-Agents - I'm a firm believer in Clay Matthews. He may not be the player he once was, but he can be effective if we'd ever get ANYONE resembling a complementary pass rusher at LB. I'm on the fence about HaHa, but I honestly think he's gone after this season.

7.) Cutting Vets - I really want to see Tramon at Safety. Spriggs probably isn't going to pan out. Fackrell shouldn't be your #2 or #3 rusher, but I think he's finding his niche as an occasional sub package guy.

8.) Offensive Coordinator - I've been pretty disappointed with the offense so far, but there are a LOT of new pieces without the comfort of having Jordy around as well.

9.) Draft a Pass Rusher - Could not agree more. I've been begging them to draft pass rushers for 3 years.

10.) Special Teams - I've never been that impressed with Zook.

11.) Who is the slot corner? - It's JAIRE ZAKAR ALEXANDER.

12.) A new HC? - I'm not completely on board with bringing in a new coach/staff... YET. At one point in 2010 we were 3-3 with consecutive game ending FG losses to Washington and Miami before we started getting hot and hey... we won the Super Bowl later that year. Currently we sit at 3-3-1 and are just now starting the hardest part of our schedule in a WEAK division. If we we're still sitting at .500 come December, it might be time to shake hands with McCarthy, tell him thanks, and part ways.

Online Shinesman

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Re: Twelve steps to fix the Packers
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2018, 01:23:36 PM »
Thank you for confirming everything I said. This is a perfect example of the kind of complacency among certain Packer fans who always parrot McCarthy's excuses for why the team underperforms every year. Celebrating making the playoffs each year is for losers like the Vikings. The Packers like to pretend they're an elite franchise that is a legitimate contender every year like the Patriots or Steelers. In reality, they're a one-dimensional team (all offense, no defense) with a one-dimensional offense. Pretty much Marino's Dolphins of the 21st century. But you're more than happy to waste the latter half of Rodgers' career just like Favre's was as long as no one criticizes the organization.

Yes, it's all Thompson's fault for drafting in the high 20s every year. If we had had a few picks in the top 10, like MN and Chi, we would be in much better shape. But did Thompson get us a high pick? No. Never. I mean, seriously, how long has it been since we drafted in the top 3? It's just inexcusable how complacent they were about accepting low draft picks every single year.

Team like the Steelers, Patriots, Vikings, Seahawks, and a few others typically pick near the backend, yet still are always in the Hunt. It's not where you pick, its who you pick. It's also using other avenues to build the team. I liked Gutes off season, the only two problems I had were passing on Edmund's in the draft, and not going after Mack with everything. Mack could literally have been the difference between our record now, and undefeated. He is that good, and he is a leader. I am curious as to how they are going to approach this coming off season with so many needs after burning two more top picks on defensive backs in 4 years? And top picks on defense for how long? It's going to be a tall order.
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