November 15, 2018, 11:56:10 PM

Author Topic: Is it Coaching or Personnel?  (Read 699 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline WTX_Cheese

  • All Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 315
  • Karma: +0/-0
Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« on: November 05, 2018, 08:33:33 AM »
The Packers are a mediocre 3-4-1 at the half-way point. Some would point to our record since the 2014 NFC Championship debacle vs Seattle (30-23-1) as a sign of a significant drop-off with McCarthy and his staff and some would point to Ted Thompson's mediocre draft record and a tendency to rely solely on the draft to acquire new talent. What is MORE to blame for our current woes? Coaching or Personnel?

Offline MO.Pack

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2018, 09:14:21 AM »
If Bill Belichick was coaching this same team would he have the same record as McCarthy for this season?  My guess would be he would have a better one

Online The GM

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2386
  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2018, 09:16:20 AM »
I think its a combination of both.  I think you need a new HC coach though.  The offense has slipped,  a lot of that is new guys MVS, ESB, and Graham still need to be lined up at times. That's why you are seeing a lot of confusion, time outs, and the play clocks nearing zero, and wrong routes.  Very frustrating for Rodgers who himself isnt playing well, holding the ball too long and throwing off his back foot.

On defense you have the departed HHCD, Matthews and Perry all playing not to get hurt.  Very soft defense.  The OLBs are worthless and I'd gladly take Perry and Matthews to the airport after the season, (Perry will be back because of the cap hit next year).  You almost have to try to be as nonproductive as our OLBs are.  Part timer Fackrell leads both of them in sacks (Are you kidding me?)

Gute needs to revamp this roster. There is a nucleus of talent here, but they need to really take a look at who they have.  If Kevin King cant roll over in bed without getting hurt, they need to look at that.  Bulaga is like a rickety barn and a tornado is coming.    Our secondary is young and promising, but they need a veteran safety in FA back there to lead by example.
 
Lots of issues, but incredibly they are still not out of it this year, but I think the McCarthys msg is getting old.  Im just not sure Murphy has the stones to make a change with another year on McCarthy's contract.   
.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 09:23:02 AM by The GM »

Offline PackerJoe

  • All Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2018, 09:27:56 AM »
They can start by putting Zook on the same bus that Montgomery was in.  He is a college coach in a big man's business!  Quite a few mental errors on special teams, having the ball bounce off your back during a punt, returning the kickoff and fumbling it, running into the kicker on a 4th and 24.  What the hell are our coaches coaching??

So Aaron Jones touches the ball 12 times and team is doing pretty good, Mccarthy takes him out after the fumble and it's 31-17?  Can Jones please run the ball 25 times a game?  If not McCarthy can be replaced sooner than later.  For being an offensive genius, McCarthy sure is stupid!  Minimum passing over the middle of the field in yesterday's game.  Add two tight ends or even three and that solves the problem! 

Stated on another thread, and agree with others, do you know Perry is getting paid $750,000/game!  He had 1 tackle yesterday.  That would be his season average.  GET HIS ASS OFF THIS TEAM, NOW!  Get Bruce Irvine in here!  Take the hit and move on!!!!  Seems to have worked well sending DIX packing!!!!  Morrison had 7 tackles in one quarter!!!!!!!

Offline scoremore

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2018, 09:43:13 AM »
Perry needs a fire lit under his ass.  Why he disappeared is a mystery to me.  MM needs to raise a little hell around the locker room.  This team need a wake up call big time.  Rodgers also needs to step up and lead this team.  Relax or run the table.  Something like that.  If he doesn't believe the team won't either.

Offline JerryA

  • Rookie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2018, 12:35:28 PM »
Everybody is quick to jump on MM for his play calling but how do you explain when were 1 st and goal on the one yard line we are throwing passes or when it 3rd or 4th and 1 at mid field we are running naked bootlegs even though MM has said we have to run the ball more.

Can it be that AR is calling  audibles at the line only to improve his HOF stats.  If so we will probable never know since it would be the end of MM if he calls out AR.

Offline RT

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2018, 12:56:52 PM »
One thing that has always bugged me about MM is that he acts like running any sort of trickery is taboo for him. Without the Patriots gadget plays last night they probably don't win that game. The week before the Rams had the Packers on their toes the whole game for something unexpected. Their punter did complete a pass on 4th down. Cobb played some QB at Kentucky, the potental is there to capitalize on it.

Offline craig

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3544
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2018, 02:07:21 PM »
One thing that has always bugged me about MM is that he acts like running any sort of trickery is taboo for him. Without the Patriots gadget plays last night they probably don't win that game. The week before the Rams had the Packers on their toes the whole game for something unexpected. Their punter did complete a pass on 4th down. Cobb played some QB at Kentucky, the potential is there to capitalize on it.

Agree with this observation.  New England's creative gadget plays turned the game around.  It's interesting that some of these other high-power offenses do stuff, but never us.  Not sure why.  Maybe our guys are dumber, and don't pick things up as quickly.  Or are dumber, so that we need more time just practicing the regular stuff; whereas maybe New England can cover the normal office more quickly, so has a little discretionary practice time left to do fun gadget stuff? 

Offline Donzo

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
  • Karma: +5/-5
  • Living the Dream
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2018, 05:58:50 AM »
You don't need trick/gimmick plays for a creative offense, although 1 - 2 gimmick plays a game would be nice.

A consistent set of misdirection, counter and tendency busting plays would do wonders for this offense.... Those few Janis jet sweeps/reverses in 2016 were fantastic.




Online ricky

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5504
  • Karma: +10/-1
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2018, 07:29:07 AM »
Perry needs a fire lit under his ass.  Why he disappeared is a mystery to me.  MM needs to raise a little hell around the locker room.  This team need a wake up call big time.  Rodgers also needs to step up and lead this team.  Relax or run the table.  Something like that.  If he doesn't believe the team won't either.

What is the problem with Perry? Apparently the ankle he had surgury on during the off-season is still bothering him. So, he is doing his best when he physically can't do the job. Is this an excuse? Nope. Perry has been an injury prone underachiever with the exception of his contract year. The Packers made a mistake. Gutekunst needs to swallow the bitter pill of either releasing him or, if possible, get some team who would be dumb enough to trade for him during the off-season. It worked with C-D. Hopefully it'll work again.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Online Whiskey Sam

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Karma: +4/-5
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 07:29:49 AM »
The Packers are a mediocre 3-4-1 at the half-way point. Some would point to our record since the 2014 NFC Championship debacle vs Seattle (30-23-1) as a sign of a significant drop-off with McCarthy and his staff and some would point to Ted Thompson's mediocre draft record and a tendency to rely solely on the draft to acquire new talent. What is MORE to blame for our current woes? Coaching or Personnel?

Both. The poor drafting/scouting has left a lack of talent, especially on defense. Rodgers is no longer able to mask McCarthy's poor coaching. Where are this team's playmakers outside of Rodgers and Adams? Who on the defensive side of the ball is a Pro Bowler?

Offline Bignutz

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 623
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2018, 08:28:56 AM »
The Packers are a mediocre 3-4-1 at the half-way point. Some would point to our record since the 2014 NFC Championship debacle vs Seattle (30-23-1) as a sign of a significant drop-off with McCarthy and his staff and some would point to Ted Thompson's mediocre draft record and a tendency to rely solely on the draft to acquire new talent. What is MORE to blame for our current woes? Coaching or Personnel?

Both. The poor drafting/scouting has left a lack of talent, especially on defense. Rodgers is no longer able to mask McCarthy's poor coaching. Where are this team's playmakers outside of Rodgers and Adams? Who on the defensive side of the ball is a Pro Bowler?

Agree with this but I think the huge problem is the O line. Need a right guard and tackle. Part ways with Bulaga. The guy is done.

Online ricky

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5504
  • Karma: +10/-1
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 11:58:23 AM »
Both. The poor drafting/scouting has left a lack of talent, especially on defense. Rodgers is no longer able to mask McCarthy's poor coaching. Where are this team's playmakers outside of Rodgers and Adams? Who on the defensive side of the ball is a Pro Bowler?

Defensive Pro Bowlers? Clark. Martinez. Alexander. And all these guys are young. Maybe Daniels. Possibly King if he can stay healthy. Not overloaded, but not bereft of talent. 
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Online Whiskey Sam

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Karma: +4/-5
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 02:41:07 PM »
Both. The poor drafting/scouting has left a lack of talent, especially on defense. Rodgers is no longer able to mask McCarthy's poor coaching. Where are this team's playmakers outside of Rodgers and Adams? Who on the defensive side of the ball is a Pro Bowler?

Defensive Pro Bowlers? Clark. Martinez. Alexander. And all these guys are young. Maybe Daniels. Possibly King if he can stay healthy. Not overloaded, but not bereft of talent.

Not a single one of those guys is playing at a Pro Bowl level right now. Some of them are solid, but none stand out as a guy who can be a game changer or an impact player.

Offline phanatic1

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Is it Coaching or Personnel?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 04:46:23 PM »
I know this is a cop out, but it has been both for me.  Prior to this season, the defense was a combination of lacking of talent and the coaching.  This season, the talent is still lacking production, but the scheme has changed and has the potential to be better is there.  The playmakers are not meeting the level of play that is needed.  Say what you will, but Mathews is not a playmaker.  He is invisible in most games and seems to making plays to stay away from contact.  Perry - non existent.  Daniels - at times he is productive, but others not so much.  Clark has played at a needed level.  Alexander has played at a needed level. But that is not nearly enough. 

The offense - well documented what everyone thinks.  This team continues to be stagnant and lacking production.  Yes Bak is a top LT.  After that, not sure anyone else is at a level that they need to be.  Graham has produced lately and he could pick things up as Rodgers will probably continue to look to him.  Adams is a top WR - but some average guys after him.  RB's - I like Jones and Williams, but lets face it that as long as MM is the coach, it doesn't really matter who is at RB. 

Front office - personnel - yes an issue.  The 2015 draft is killing this team.  A total swing and miss by TT and that is just in-excusable.