December 10, 2018, 06:04:01 PM

Author Topic: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.  (Read 794 times)

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Offline claymaker

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The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« on: November 26, 2018, 02:09:48 PM »
Is there still a place for a true pro style offense in today's NFL?

That is to say an offense that relies on the execution of fundamentals and winning 1v1 match ups. Mismatches and misdirection are secondary ideals in McCarthy's system and the gap between them and the fundamentals is large. It is obvious and common sense why fundamentals and 1v1 match ups are an important, arguably the most important, part of any physical contest. It is, however, not so obvious why a successful coach, McCarthy, has failed to produce an offense that fits that identity.

Is it a lack of creativity? I haven't seen that. From my own perspective they seem to have covered up their lack of execution with creative play calling and scheme, particularly in the run game. There's no shortage of high percentage throws. No shortage of route combinations aimed at exploiting certain coverages. Not every play call can have that schematic thinking in mind. At the end of the day, you have to rely on the players to make plays.

Is it poor situational play? I have seen that. Stemming from a lack of execution and over reliance on players to make plays.

This is all part of the same problem that I don't have an answer for. Why can't this offense put it together? I don't believe McCarthy is a bad coach, I don't believe he lacks creativity, and I really don't believe they will find a better coach than him.

My summary of issues brings about what I believe to be the root problem. The players are not capable of producing the ideal McCarthy offense. In fact, I'm not sure the NFL is capable of producing that style of offense anymore. The draft and develop philosophy, with one exception, is doctrine league wide. It creates this revolving door effect every 3-5 years, depending on success, where the cream on top is selected, and players that would otherwise be the "core" of the team are dispersed evenly throughout the league. Attempts, even the successful ones, to fill that core with stocks of new rookies and UDFAs are general failures. It creates a generational gap over time. The young stay young and inexperienced and the cream stay on top for as long as they are able but eventually curdle. I believe we've seen some of that cream curdle and the young players aren't able to pick up the slack. Is Aaron Rodgers moldy milk? No. What I see is a "half life" effect took hold of the roster. The lack of practice time may be the true culprit, but that ship has sailed and not relevant to the solution.

I'm not so certain there is a place for McCarthy's ideal offense in the NFL anymore. You get 1 or 2 good years, 1 or 2 years of mediocrity, and 1 or 2 years of Cleveland Brown's football. Due to the presence of Aaron Rodgers the years of Cleveland Brown football are non existent, but the years and spurts of mediocrity are increased. With the exception of 2017, Green Bay has been by no means a bad offensive football team.

 twocents)

Offline SET4YRS

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 05:09:14 PM »
 Excellent post, Pro style vs system. I say let Rodgers play big boy Pro style chess like no other, because he can. Get him a new weapon.

Online Bignutz

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« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:56:00 AM by Bignutz »

Online The GM

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 07:16:50 AM »
Time for Packer fans to wake up.  This team was a joke last year. It took OT to beat the Browns last year.  This year we have the same record as the Browns.  Keep a nucleus and blow this thing up.  New coach, new staff, new ideas. Rodgers and this team needs to get hungry again and it wont happen in this current setup.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 07:39:17 AM by The GM »

Offline Donzo

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 07:53:42 AM »
Good thread.

MM had a great run, but changes are needed.

Now, Rodgers being out of sync is crippling, but also revealing. The Packers are running an antiquated vanilla offense that needs to be changed. And, Rodgers isn't able to mask it this year... Interesting to note that on the two TD drives against the vikes, the Packers did some different things with excellent results... Just too little too late.

Hiring the new coach will be interesting... I probably wont be commenting on it. More than likely I take a break until the draft... It's been a frustrating year.

Go Pack!








Offline SB XLIX

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2018, 08:02:26 AM »
The Packers went all in on AR in the offseason.  If MM can't get to 500 with AR, don't the Packers have to go in another direction?  I don't think they are going to backtrack on AR.  What are they going to do, trade him now?

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2018, 09:39:49 AM »
ttps://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/26/green-bay-packers-offense-problems-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers

Article by Andy Benoit at SI.com titled:    Debunking the Myths of Mike McCarthy, Aaron Rodgers and the Packers Offense

Offline Donzo

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2018, 10:22:22 AM »
There's nothing new in Benoit's article to people actually paying attention to the situation, so I don't see the "debunking".

People paying attention understand there are more issues with the offense than MM- Rodgers is struggling, the OL isn't performing as well as it has in the past and there's been a turnover of personal at WR/TE... Saying that, MM's adjustments to the current situation have been lacking.  Add in his tired play calling and ineffective game management, I say it's time for a change... It was a heck of of run, MM- thanks for the memories!

Myself, I really want to see another offensive minded HC with modern schemes (tendency busters, misdirection, and analytical game management).


Offline craig

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2018, 11:24:10 AM »
Thanks for Benoit article, that was a good reminder. 

I don't expect a change-of-coach to fix the Packers.  But I think it's wise to take a shot. 

The Benoit article highlights a reality:  the passing game isn't that good, and it really hasn't been in some time.  People have naturally considered different culprits: whether MM's scheme; the receivers lack of speed; the receivers lack of ability to get open; the stability of the o-line; in days past the quality of the running game.  I suspect it's multiple of those factors. 

But the easiest thing to change is the coach.  Probably it won't fix much.  Probably the talent limits at TE, o-line, and receiving group will persist.  And probably Rodgers problems with accuracy and decision-making will likewise persist. 

With a new boss, perhaps everything might get worse.  Rodgers and everybody would need to get used to new ideas.  Perhaps some of the talent won't fit some new ideas.  And perhaps if you bring in a newer and perhaps younger coach, he might be even less willing or able to tangle with Rodgers, so that Rodgers might go rogue more than ever? 

Still, I think they've kind of got to try something other than status quo.  To whatever extent Rodgers has inconsistent accuracy and decision-making, it seems that MM isn't going to be able to get more out of him.  Status quo isn't going to get it done.  A new voice probably won't get it done either, but I think it's probably time to take a shot. 

Offline Donzo

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2018, 12:08:41 PM »
Thanks for Benoit article, that was a good reminder. 

The Benoit article highlights a reality:  the passing game isn't that good, and it really hasn't been in some time.  People have naturally considered different culprits: whether MM's scheme; the receivers lack of speed; the receivers lack of ability to get open; the stability of the o-line; in days past the quality of the running game.  I suspect it's multiple of those factors. 

Probably it won't fix much. And probably Rodgers problems with accuracy and decision-making will likewise persist.

Hu?

What did Beloit state that needed to be reminded?

The passing game hasn't been good in some time- what?... It was very good two season ago and good the first five games last year with Rodgers, especially the last three games before he was hurt.

Why would Rodger's issues persist?


Offline PackerJoe

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2018, 11:27:38 AM »
Irregardless of what happens the rest of the year, McCarthy is gone.  His contract expires at the end of this year and his production without Rodgers rivals that of Hue Jackson.  Where is Hue now?  Secondly, there is alot of finger pointing going on, but let's face some important facts.  Did you really think Rodgers was going to be 100% of his former self after having 13 pins/bolt placed in his throwing shoulder along with 2 metal plates?  The Nelson loss hurt as well as the injuries to Cobb, Allison and Kumerow.  No one foresaw that.  The signing of Graham has proven to be a dud.  OL has held up pretty good, but we need to add more depth there.  As for playcalling, they have thrown the ball eight times in the middle of the field in the last 4 games.  You know what that gets you, a 1-3 record and being highly predictable!!!!  Offense has zero creativity and MccArthy is no offensive genius and he lacks creativity.  Rodger's passes to the sidelines are falling short or sailing to long.  Seems like he is out of sync, not just for 1-2 games, the whole season.  So, this season will be a write-off and we have to see how Rodgers performs next year.  We have a tendency to keep players (Perry, Mathews, Rollins, etc.) and coaches (McCarthy, Zook, our former DC), GM (TT, Murphy) around longer than they should be!!!!  I'm saying a housecleaning is absolutely necessary and would not rule out trading Rodgers this year or next year.  Probably not this year because his performance has been sad.  He had hep getting there thanks to TT and McCarthy.

As for our defense, Wilkerson acquisition was good, his injury not so good.  LB is atrocious and needs drastic improvement.  I have moaned about Martinez and praised him.  I'm back in my moaning mood.  He is a nice backup who makes alot of tackles 10 yards after the RB has blown by him!  His pass protection is atrocious!  Mathews looked atrocious on the Cousins 11 yd td TD bootleg.  He should have kept his head down all the way to the sidelines as he did the entire play!  I do like Morrison, he has passion!  Problem is this upcoming draft is LB lean and QB lean. Not sure what the problem is with placing a higher value on the LB position.  Clark and Adams could turn into something real special!!  Get rid of PERRRY NOW!!!!!  We are paying 750K a game and he is averaging 1 tackle a game for the last two years!!!!!  I know of high school defensive ends that can play better than him and they don't get paid.  MURPHY, TT and MCCarthy this item alone will get you all fired at the end of the year!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, going back a few years if we had traded FAvre sooner, we would've gotten some decent picks for him instead of the two 2nd rd'ers we got from the Jets.  Thinks the Broncos would give us two 1's for Rodgers?  It is a damn shame we have not gotten more weapons on defense and some on offense.  When you look back at Aaron's career we should've been in at least two more Super Bowls.  It's really sad.     

Offline PackerJoe

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 11:41:44 AM »
I had a long lengthy response, but the two coaches I would go after are on the same team, Joe Lombardi and Pete Carmicheal.  Oh yeah them getting rid of Aaron's QB coach didn't help either (IE Van Pelt)  Never want to complain without providing options/solutions!

Offline dannobanano

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Re: The case for and against Mike McCarthy.
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2018, 12:43:51 PM »
Irregardless of what happens the rest of the year, McCarthy is gone.  His contract expires at the end of this year and his production without Rodgers rivals that of Hue Jackson.     

MM signed a one year extension during the off-season.

He is under contract through the 2019 season..................even if he is no longer the Packers HC.