December 10, 2018, 06:05:03 PM

Author Topic: How McCarthy got fired  (Read 1497 times)

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Online ricky

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2018, 04:06:23 PM »
If that be the case it's time to trade Rodgers for all you can get.


No player, no player is above the HC and his staff.


Bite the bullet and pickup a journeyman QB until you can draft one that will be your next franchise QB and part ways with the pre-madonna that is taking down this team because of a big ego.

Well, how about a trade with Dallas? Demarcus Ware and Zak Prescott and a first. Sure, Ware is going to be expensive to re-sign, but if Rodgers cap is removed, suddenly the Packers have plenty of room to sign him and add some prime FA's. First question, would the Packers indeed be clear of Rodgers complete salary, or would there be a "cap hangover" even in a trade? Also, would this trade make sense for both teams? This is pure pie-in-the-sky, day dreaming, off the wall spitballing. Not a serious suggestion.

However, if the Packers did trade Rodgers, here is the impact on the Packers salary cap:

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/3/5/11158958/

Here is the relevant portion that would apply to the Packers- in a trade, they clear all of AR's contract except money guaranteed at the time of the trade. In other words, they are suddenly salary cap rich:

Trades
Sometimes, players are traded away, and this affects the salary cap in much the same way as a cut or a retirement. The team from which a player is traded is no longer on the hook for unpaid salaries or future bonuses, but is still responsible for accounting for any bonuses that have already been paid. That may just be remaining, prorated signing bonus money, but it can also include things like a roster bonus that was paid at the beginning of the current league year. Again, this all depends heavily on when the player is traded.

However, the big accounting difference in a trade is that, when a player is traded, the team is still getting something back in return for the player. Typically, this is one or more other players, so those players' salaries would then be counted against the acquiring team's salary cap. The incoming players' prorated bonuses, however, continue to stay with their previous team.



« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 04:19:37 PM by ricky »
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Online Shinesman

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2018, 04:12:20 PM »
I'm guessing the rift between MM and AR is like any other rumor, somewhere in the middle. I doubt MM forgot how to be a playcaller, and AR wasn't actively running MM out of town.
I do agree that AR doesn't come out of this looking good. Any serious Packer fan doesn't expect AR to be traded, but the amount of slack we would normally allow him for a bad performance has been significantly reduced. This is the part that may surprise AR. The national press is still calling him elite. Those of us watching the games are not seeing that level of 'eliteness' (new word?), and are wondering about the huge contract that was just signed. IF AR was passively aggressively working against MM,  and truly wanted someone else, he better be ready for the load he just placed on his own shoulders.

I was just about to write something similar, especially about the "truth being somewhere in the middle". I would only like to expand on this: Our only glimpse of their relationship is the small amount of times we saw them interacting on the sidelines and our perception that AR was being snippy with MM in press conferences. We never had access to team meetings and practices.

That being said, going forward, the success of the Packers (or at least the perception) will be predominantly on Rodgers until his career ends. We no longer have Ted Thompson to blame for a poor roster/lack of free agents or Mike McCarthy for poor play calling. For better or worse, this is solely the Aaron Rodgers show.

There will be plenty of reason to curse Ted moving on. A bad draft lingers for years, and hes had plenty. Either by obvious reaches, or by drafting square pegs for round holes. Sprinkle in the fact that he let players walk that everyone could see were good, and extended mediocre talent for big dollars. All detrimental. That will be felt for the next 5 seasons.
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Online Gregg

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2018, 06:35:24 PM »
This is what I think Silverstein was saying in his column.

He was warning that a new coach would not cure everything off the bat. Because TT had left some real personnel problems behind.

Offline RT

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2018, 06:44:23 PM »
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The stupidest of content. Financially impossible to trade Aaron Rodgers.

Offline phanatic1

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2018, 06:49:44 PM »
The reason for MM's demise is not just on him.  TT did hurt this team with his lack of advancing the roster.  His refusal to pursue free agents and rely on the draft and develop philosophy did great harm to it.  To go 0 for the 2015 draft is having a major impact.  Those guys from that draft should be the backbone of this team in their third year and we should see contributors on both sides of the ball.  The lack of draft success has been beat over and over.

MM decided his own fate with his stubborn ways.  The inability to address issues on the coaching staff and allow for guys like Capers and Zook to hang around in spite of the continued poor performances by their units is hard to explain.  And then, to let your HOF QB's coach to walk out without talking with him about it is kind of a power play.  His continued to rely on his offense and did not make adjustments to the scheme to accommodate the talent.

And, this was interesting from James Jones, particularly the middle section. 

https://twitter.com/NFLMedia/status/1069743938024628224

Online Shinesman

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2018, 07:32:54 PM »
I know there's a lot of new posters. But I see a lot of disdain now for the previous way of doing business. A way that was once defended with suspending people who opposed it. Crazy how times change.
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Offline Minny Packer Fan

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2018, 08:02:51 PM »
I didn't say 'cut' him...I said 'trade' him.


I had posted this last week, but will re-post it here.

Dead cap money by year for Rodgers,


2018 - 80,300,000.00

2019 - 59,400,000.00

2020 - 34,500,000.00

2021 - 23,000,000.00

First real potential out of Rodgers contract is 2022 with a hit of 11,500,000.00

Their will be no parting of ways with Aaron Rodgers for awhile. After he signed his deal this summer, their is no going back on it. It could be 4 long years stuck in a trap of Rodgers as the QB.

The cost to trade Aaron Rodgers prior to June 1st 2019 is $59.4 million in dead money less $26.5 million in cap savings = a cap hit of -$32.9 million.  Its anticipated the Packers will be $41 million under the cap before the cap gets its annual increase....so  I anticipate they will be $50 to $55 million under the cap.  Its doable but expensive.  If you can get multiple first round picks and a player or two in return, I'd pull the trigger.  A trade with Oakland makes the most sense.  Trade quarterbacks (Rodgers for Carr), the Raiders 1st, their second round pick and Arden Key.  We'd have 3-1sts, 2-2nds, 1-3rd, and 2-4th round picks in this years draft.  If Gute hits on the picks in this years draft we'd have a ton of cap space in 2020 to fill out the roster.  It would be a quick rebuild.  Key is turning into a real player. 

Offline marklawrence

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2018, 08:06:11 PM »
I know there's a lot of new posters. But I see a lot of disdain now for the previous way of doing business. A way that was once defended with suspending people who opposed it. Crazy how times change.

If you're talking about me.,

I regret many of my actions, especially from about 2002 to 2010. I had the divorce from hell and I didn't handle it well.  And packer chatters suffered as a result.  More recently, however, I've given out few time outs, zero this year. I'm very pleased with the karma system, it seems to be keeping things here under control with me doing nothing.

For the record, I've given out a few positive karmas and zero negative karmas. I do watch the numbers. And I will step in if someone goes seriously negative.
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Offline marklawrence

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2018, 08:11:18 PM »

.  A trade with Oakland makes the most sense.  Trade quarterbacks (Rodgers for Carr), the Raiders 1st, their second round pick and Arden Key.  We'd have 3-1sts, 2-2nds, 1-3rd, and 2-4th round picks in this years draft.  If Gute hits on the picks in this years draft we'd have a ton of cap space in 2020 to fill out the roster.  It would be a quick rebuild.  Key is turning into a real player.

Your plan requires patience on the part of the fans for several years, and the belief that we can find a franchise qb in a reasonable amount of time.  Franchise qbs aren't dropping off the Apple trees. I'm not convinced carr is" the guy. "  The fact that we probably could get a good price for a 36yo qb who just got his coach fired shows how rare these guys are.

We might get a better price from jax.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 08:16:28 PM by marklawrence »
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Online Bignutz

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2018, 08:30:01 PM »
The reason for MM's demise is not just on him.  TT did hurt this team with his lack of advancing the roster.  His refusal to pursue free agents and rely on the draft and develop philosophy did great harm to it.  To go 0 for the 2015 draft is having a major impact.  Those guys from that draft should be the backbone of this team in their third year and we should see contributors on both sides of the ball.  The lack of draft success has been beat over and over.

MM decided his own fate with his stubborn ways.  The inability to address issues on the coaching staff and allow for guys like Capers and Zook to hang around in spite of the continued poor performances by their units is hard to explain.  And then, to let your HOF QB's coach to walk out without talking with him about it is kind of a power play.  His continued to rely on his offense and did not make adjustments to the scheme to accommodate the talent.  Just my twocents)

And, this was interesting from James Jones, particularly the middle section. 

https://twitter.com/NFLMedia/status/1069743938024628224

Agree with this. MM did himself in with his refusal to change with the game, keeping Capers around for so many years, not getting rid of Zook, Not having your backups adequately prepared. What's the quote " doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity". Thanks for the good years Mike, but in this NFL it's what have you done for me lately? twocents)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 08:31:07 PM by Bignutz »

Offline craig

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2018, 09:08:34 PM »
I'd read the complete, earlier version before the firing.  It wasn't a very healthy-sounding landscape. 

Still, I think this headline maybe sounds much more extreme.  Rodgers has always had options to look at what the defense shows and respond accordingly.  Think it might be dumb not to?  I don't see anything so weird or unusual about that.  Doesn't any QB who's beyond his first contract have that?  Plus, so many defenses are so very smart about shifting and changing and taking things away, plus disguising really well.  For them to often take away what MM sent in, that doesn't seem surprising.  And for Rodgers to then respond, perhaps appropriately, and try to take advantage of some other opportunity, not sure I see anything wrong with that?

Now, it may be that Rodgers is making crummy decisions.  And perhaps that his decision-making would seem a lot better if he could throw the ball accurately. 


Offline SB XLIX

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2018, 05:48:34 AM »
Interesting thing about the 2019 draft, none of the teams with the worst records think they need a QB:

Ok Carr (maybe they think they need a QB)
SF Garapalo
AZ Rosen ( I think they need a QB)
NYJ Darnold
Cle Mayfield
Atl  Ryan
Det Stafford

You have to get to the 4-5 win teams before you see a need for QB.  These teams could tank or they could get to 6-7 wins.
But it seems like a week QB class as well.
That could be detrimental to GB, since the best DL, OLB OL will go higher without the usual 4-5 teams drafting QBs.
It could also work out for GB if QB1 is available when they pick.

Offline Whiskey Sam

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2018, 06:52:18 AM »
I know there's a lot of new posters. But I see a lot of disdain now for the previous way of doing business. A way that was once defended with suspending people who opposed it. Crazy how times change.

If you're talking about me.,

I regret many of my actions, especially from about 2002 to 2010. I had the divorce from hell and I didn't handle it well.  And packer chatters suffered as a result.  More recently, however, I've given out few time outs, zero this year. I'm very pleased with the karma system, it seems to be keeping things here under control with me doing nothing.

For the record, I've given out a few positive karmas and zero negative karmas. I do watch the numbers. And I will step in if someone goes seriously negative.

You do realize one person can repeatedly downvote the same comment, right? The karma system is essentially meaningless by giving one individual a heckler's veto over another.

Offline ChicagoPackerFan

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2018, 07:04:40 AM »
There is also the possibility McCarthy was told after the game this would be his last year, and because of the frustration of the current situation it was mutually decided he would leave now rather then after the season.

Also I don't get all this negative talk on how he was let go, this is a business and people get fired everyday in business. I've been let laid off before and had 30 minutes to back up my stuff and leave. I've also seen presidents and VP of companies let go immediately, businesses normally don't want terminated employees hanging around for weeks. Also the guy is collecting a years salary of something like 6 million.

Online ricky

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Re: How McCarthy got fired
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2018, 02:57:24 PM »
Agree with this. MM did himself in with his refusal to change with the game, keeping Capers around for so many years, not getting rid of Zook, Not having your backups adequately prepared. What's the quote " doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity". Thanks for the good years Mike, but in this NFL it's what have you done for me lately? twocents)

What has become puzzling to me is why another team would jump at the chance to hire MM. This is a guy who has shown he is stubborn, has shown no ability to adapt to a changing NFL, doesn't make good in game adjustments, doesn't seem able to get a team to play hard int he early season, and had a first ballot HOF QB on his roster to repeatedly bail him out. Now, knowing all this, if you were the GM of a team that needed fresh ideas and a coach that could fire up the squad, would you hire McCarthy? I wouldn't, in spite of his record. Unless he could somehow convince me he had learned from his mistakes, and was willing to change.
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