December 10, 2018, 07:31:21 PM

Author Topic: Winston Moss fired  (Read 949 times)

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Offline B

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2018, 03:13:46 PM »
It's kind of weird, there was a time when Moss was talked about as a quality, rising-career type guy, with media talk suggesting he might be a head coach or defensive-coordinator candidate.  Didn't he get several D-coordinator interviews some years back? 

Think the tweet fits with his persona: tough, gruff, take-no-guff hard guy, with no flattery or smooth talk, just a snarly straight-shooter. 

The persona doesn't really speak to the ability to coach and teach; based on his press conferences, he seemed to be a pretty poor communicator, and it's somewhat hard for me to imagine him having been a very good teacher as a result. 

For him, I assume he knew that with MM gone, and with his linebacker crowd being so unproductive, he probably knew he was going to be cleared out after the season anyway.  Not sure getting fired bothers him much.

From the view of a fan your opinion is acceptable. Ask the players and they would tell you a completely different story. You don't get to where he is in the NFL being what you described, it just doesn't happen.

The idea that every interview and person speaking needs to cater to the media and fans is an entitled one. Bill Belichick is a notorious media party pooper. Do we think he's a poor communicator and coach based his press conferences? No.

I always liked his press conferences. He answered all questions and if you asked a stupid question like "What's the most important thing so and so needs to work on." He would say "Everything is important. Needs to work on everything" He got asked a lot of dumb questions. Like McCarthy never threw any of his players under the bus and treated them like men. He'll find another job.

EDIT: And based on all "reports" and speculation surrounding the Packers atm his tweet was right on the money.

  goodpost Clay
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 03:14:33 PM by B »
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Offline craig

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2018, 08:50:25 PM »
So you guys are saying from your observation that Moss was an outstanding teacher and communicator?  And probably strategist and analyst as well? 

Or is this more the "frame of reference" part?  Like, from one frame of reference, any player who gets  invited to a 90-man roster is an amazing, incredible football player, one of the top 3000 football players in the world, a really select achiever.  From other frame of reference, relative to guys who play regularly for winning teams, a guy at the back of another NFL roster, while amazing relative to mankind as a whole, may be mediocre or below-average relative to winning starters on winning teams.  The frame of reference distinguishes amazing from average. 

Same for coaches.  There are only ~500 NFL coaches in the world.  That's a pretty select group, and anybody who ever reaches that elite company is pretty amazing relative to mankind as a whole, and relative to all of the coaches in high school and college, presumably for some good reason.  But not all 500 coaches are amazing and above average relative to NFL coaches. 

Offline R MaN

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2018, 09:42:39 PM »
So you guys are saying from your observation that Moss was an outstanding teacher and communicator?  And probably strategist and analyst as well? 

Or is this more the "frame of reference" part?  Like, from one frame of reference, any player who gets  invited to a 90-man roster is an amazing, incredible football player, one of the top 3000 football players in the world, a really select achiever.  From other frame of reference, relative to guys who play regularly for winning teams, a guy at the back of another NFL roster, while amazing relative to mankind as a whole, may be mediocre or below-average relative to winning starters on winning teams.  The frame of reference distinguishes amazing from average. 

Same for coaches.  There are only ~500 NFL coaches in the world.  That's a pretty select group, and anybody who ever reaches that elite company is pretty amazing relative to mankind as a whole, and relative to all of the coaches in high school and college, presumably for some good reason.  But not all 500 coaches are amazing and above average relative to NFL coaches.



Think about this. Many Packer fans are upset that The Packers drafted Vince Biegel instead of T J Watt.   I thought both were about equal at Wisconsin.   Biegel had Moss as his coach, T J Watt did not.
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Online marklawrence

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2018, 02:34:40 AM »
Pittsburgh:

Chuck Noll    1969–1991
Bill Cowher   1992–2006
Mike Tomlin   2007–present

I don't believe McCarthy went stupid or old. I think Thompson had several poor drafts in a row. I believe McCarthy got fired mostly because Thompson didn't do his job well.

That said, I do lay the 2014 3:52 debacle at McCarthy's feet. He let his team start celebrating before the game was over.
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Online ricky

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2018, 04:40:08 PM »
Pittsburgh:

Chuck Noll    1969–1991
Bill Cowher   1992–2006
Mike Tomlin   2007–present

I don't believe McCarthy went stupid or old. I think Thompson had several poor drafts in a row. I believe McCarthy got fired mostly because Thompson didn't do his job well.

That said, I do lay the 2014 3:52 debacle at McCarthy's feet. He let his team start celebrating before the game was over.

The offense got stale and predictable. McCarthy didn't alter change with the changes in the NFL. He also seemed to be too loyal to other coaches who had clearly fallen "behind the curve" as the game evolved. Thompson had some very sub-par drafts, and made some very questionable decisions on first round choices. And his lack of movement in FA, especially not even trying to sign Danny Trevathan- something even Trevathan thought was surprising. TT's "diamond in the rough" drafts were largely misses, as he also seemed to ignore his scouts and others. Also, it was apparent that Thompson had some sort of health issue (stroke?) a few years ago. So, you have two stubborn personalities, both clinging to previous successes, and refusing or unable to adapt to the new realities of the NFL. The result? A team that is short on talent, with an offense that should be dominating, but this year in particular, seems unable to close out games it should win. 
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Offline R MaN

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2018, 05:48:52 PM »
Pittsburgh:

Chuck Noll    1969–1991
Bill Cowher   1992–2006
Mike Tomlin   2007–present

I don't believe McCarthy went stupid or old. I think Thompson had several poor drafts in a row. I believe McCarthy got fired mostly because Thompson didn't do his job well.

That said, I do lay the 2014 3:52 debacle at McCarthy's feet. He let his team start celebrating before the game was over.

The offense got stale and predictable. McCarthy didn't alter change with the changes in the NFL. He also seemed to be too loyal to other coaches who had clearly fallen "behind the curve" as the game evolved. Thompson had some very sub-par drafts, and made some very questionable decisions on first round choices. And his lack of movement in FA, especially not even trying to sign Danny Trevathan- something even Trevathan thought was surprising. TT's "diamond in the rough" drafts were largely misses, as he also seemed to ignore his scouts and others. Also, it was apparent that Thompson had some sort of health issue (stroke?) a few years ago. So, you have two stubborn personalities, both clinging to previous successes, and refusing or unable to adapt to the new realities of the NFL. The result? A team that is short on talent, with an offense that should be dominating, but this year in particular, seems unable to close out games it should win.

My friend in Green Bay noted to me that Thompson has dementia of some stage.
It’s my contention that he has early onset dementia for 1 plus years. That would account for some of his
actions or non actions.
As far back as I cam remember, I always wanted to be a gangster.

Online marklawrence

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2018, 06:21:41 PM »
Football outsiders has us as the number seven offense, down from last week when we were number five. Doesn't sound all that stale and predictable.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 06:22:26 PM by marklawrence »
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Offline davekenya

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2018, 08:05:53 PM »
Frankly, I'm surprised the offense has done as well this year as it has.  For about 1/2 the year, we have had a hampered AR throwing to rookie mid-round picks for X games as the top receivers.  GB was more successful when it could run the no-huddle which has been mostly absent this year.  Probably a combo of young players not knowing LOS audibles and assignments?

If you believe you get what you pay for, let's look at recent drafts and which rounds the top offensive picks were taken in...

2018 - round 4 - J'Mon Moore
2017 - round 4 - Jamaal Williams
2016 - round 2 - Jason Spriggs (gulp); then round 5 Trevor Davis
2015 - round 3 - Ty Montgomery
2014 - round 2 - Davante Adams, round 3 - Richard Rodgers
2013 - round 2 - Eddie Lacy; round 4 - David Bakhtiari, JC Tretter, Johnathan Franklin
2012 - round 7 - Andy Datko, BJ Coleman (really, this is true)

During 2012 - 18, this translates into:

Picks            Offense     Defense
Round 1           0               6
Round 2           3               6
Round 3           2               4
Round 4           5               7

In rounds 1-3, this translates into 5 out of 21 picks being on the offensive side of the ball. Should MM  spin that into gold?

Did GB balanced that out through signing more/better offensive UFA starters from other teams than were lost?

Starters on offense lost to free agency:
2018 - Richard Rodgers
2017 - Jared Cook, TJ Lang, Eddie Lacy
2016 - none
2015 - none
2014 - James Jones
2013 - Greg Jennings
2012 - Scott Wells

This was balanced by TT/BG signing these UFA offensive players:
2018 - Jimmy Graham
2017 - Martellus Bennett
2016 - none
2015 - none
2014 - none
2013 - none
2012 -Jeff Saturday

Could running a very different offense with this talent level have been more consistently successful?  All things being equal, better players are drafted earlier.  Better players tend to play better.  If anything, between AR and MM, they've done a commendable job keeping the offensive playing at a high level given how poorly the offense was upgrading itself year in and year out via the draft and FA. 

Offline SET4YRS

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Re: Winston Moss fired
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2018, 09:04:52 PM »
 Sounds like he felt he should have gotten the job instead of Philbin. Simple as that to me.