March 24, 2019, 08:43:38 AM

Author Topic: The cost of winning  (Read 1390 times)

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Offline marklawrence

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The cost of winning
« on: December 24, 2018, 05:16:14 PM »
Beating Atlanta and the Jets dropped us from pick 5 to pick 13.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” -- John F. Kennedy.

Offline ricky

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2018, 07:24:00 PM »
The  game also showed us that Rodgers still "has it". That Rodgers can still get fired up, even in a meaningless game, and lead by example with guts and skill. That this team, after a slow/stagnant start, took heart from their leader's example and played with determination. Not special teams, unfortunately, but hopefully that will be addressed during the off season. Would a higher draft pick be good? Depends on who it is, and whether they can transition successfully to the NFL.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/game-changing-play-of-the-week-aaron-rodgers-takes-matters-into-his-own-hands-145
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 07:26:02 PM by ricky »
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Offline Fargofootball

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2018, 10:14:44 AM »
No offense intended Mark, but win every darn game! I still remember the 70s and 80s and it wont take much to fall into that whirlpool again.
Winning is a culture that builds over time but can be lost easily. Tank not my friends as the climb back up may be more difficult than you think.

Offline rock county

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2018, 10:42:18 AM »
With winning against Falcons and Jets, the Packers have slipped from #5 to now #14.  The season was over.  I get the "Winning Culture" thing, but IMO, I believe that applies more in the High School and College level, College especially.  Packers and NFL teams pick their athletes. Athletes pick their College. 

Realistically, the season was over BEFORE the Falcons game.  I know that you can't go out and tell players to lose, but management should've realized this and figured out a way to strategically tank the season.

Maybe, just guessing, 20% of the current active Packers won't be around next season and what they're going to losing will be dead weight. The difference between #5 and #14 could make a huge difference.  And stating #14 is probably a best case scenario, considering the Packers play the Lions this Sunday, who they will probably beat, then probably fall to #17 in draft selection order. Not a very good reward for having such a disappointing season that was probability-wise lost by week 11 when they crapped the bed against the Seahawks.

Offline ricky

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2018, 11:32:57 AM »
rock county, you're assuming that how well the draft picks will play in the NFL is the same as where they were picked. Nothing could be further from the truth. For every first rounder who flourishes, there are multiples who are mediocre or worse. Drafting wisely is more important than where you get to pick. Just ask New England.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline rock county

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2018, 11:03:31 PM »
Ricky, that is true, some teams(i.e. Patriots) do exceptionally well picking in the lower spots while some teams (Raiders) do a poor job of transitioning their high picks into success (I know they picked Amari Cooper and Khalil Mack recently, but they are where they are) , but all things being equal would you rather have the #5 pick valued at 1,700 points or the #17 pick, valued at 950 points?

Offline Fargofootball

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2018, 09:31:39 AM »
Respectfully, who wants to work for an organization who plans tanking? What player wants to play for a team that is losing on purpose. What fan wants to watch that garbage.
We stacked up high early picks for many years during the lean decades and got nowhere. Culture is everywhere, in the front office, locker rooms, in the stands, even the announcers (ask Gary Dolphin and his open mike). Winners beget winners and losers beget losers in everything in life. Yea, sit at my dinner table if you want lectures on not trying your best.  :)

Offline ricky

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2018, 12:59:35 PM »
Ricky, that is true, some teams(i.e. Patriots) do exceptionally well picking in the lower spots while some teams (Raiders) do a poor job of transitioning their high picks into success (I know they picked Amari Cooper and Khalil Mack recently, but they are where they are) , but all things being equal would you rather have the #5 pick valued at 1,700 points or the #17 pick, valued at 950 points?

I want the player who is going to be successful. The player who is not going to get hurt. The player who is going to be a good citizen. The player who is going to be named an All-Pro repeatedly. If you have the number of points necessary to guarantee that player, I'll listen. Until then, its not how many points the draft pick is worth, but how well the player transitions to the NFL. Also, referencing the draft, in 1983, John Elway went #1; Todd Blackledge #7; Jim Kelly #14; Tony Eason #15; Ken O'Brien #24, and Dan Marino #27. Its the player, not the points or their position in the draft.

AJ Hawk was the fifth pick of the draft in 2006. That same year, pick #17 was Chad Greenway. Players, not draft position.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 01:22:32 PM by ricky »
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Offline RT

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2018, 01:03:49 PM »
Respectfully, who wants to work for an organization who plans tanking? What player wants to play for a team that is losing on purpose. What fan wants to watch that garbage.
We stacked up high early picks for many years during the lean decades and got nowhere. Culture is everywhere, in the front office, locker rooms, in the stands, even the announcers (ask Gary Dolphin and his open mike). Winners beget winners and losers beget losers in everything in life. Yea, sit at my dinner table if you want lectures on not trying your best.  :)


Totally agree here. Not judging anyone else, but for me their is only one way to go though life and that is 100% all the time.

Offline rock county

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2018, 07:29:26 AM »
I'm not judging any thoughts, either. 

Thats a good example of AJ Hawk or Chad Greenway. 

Sometimes, it when a situation is lost, it's not a bad idea to pull back, regroup and prepare for the next objective.

But what can a #5 can get turned into for draft picks?

Also, one more thing about the 2006 draft, if I remember rumors correctly, the Packers were rumored to be interested in Vince Young at # 3 as an eventual replacement to Favre? Counters my point, I know.

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2018, 11:35:57 AM »
I'd have adopted a mixed strategy. I'd have put Kizer and Boyle in for the last quarter of each of the last two games (and some other deeper-on-the-roster guys as well). I'd also call the plays to win and tell the players (and make it absolutely crystal clear) they SHOULD play to win. Then you let the chips fall where they will.
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Offline davekenya

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2018, 06:16:46 PM »
I'd have adopted a mixed strategy. I'd have put Kizer and Boyle in for the last quarter of each of the last two games (and some other deeper-on-the-roster guys as well). I'd also call the plays to win and tell the players (and make it absolutely crystal clear) they SHOULD play to win. Then you let the chips fall where they will.
I'd have done the same thing. 

On average, higher draft picks translate into better players; it doesn't make sense to cherry-pick examples to support any argument to the contrary.

The 'winning culture' will be greatly be driven by the new HC and his coordinators moreso than what happened in the last 1-2 games of a lost season that will have ended 6 months ago before training camp starts.  Disclosure:  I admit being biased b/c I remember as a kid being upset GB won it's final 2 games in 1988 when they were a shoo-in to get Aikman...and instead got Mandarich.   thumbsdwn)

Offline packdaddy

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2018, 04:50:20 PM »
Beating Atlanta and the Jets dropped us from pick 5 to pick 13.

But up to #12.

Offline ricky

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2018, 07:09:25 PM »
Beating Atlanta and the Jets dropped us from pick 5 to pick 13.

But up to #12.

Any bets that Gutekunst tries to move? He had success with Alexander. Will that make him more or less likely to take another chance?
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Offline Fargofootball

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Re: The cost of winning
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2018, 07:17:22 PM »
Many say Allen will be gone and it's too early for Sweat so a move is likely.