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Author Topic: A franchise in shambles...  (Read 3743 times)

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Offline B

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A franchise in shambles...
« on: December 30, 2018, 03:16:18 PM »
Today was a perfect representation of the cumulative effect of a team imploding over the course of the last year.

Today more than other time in my life and 60 years of being a Packer fan I was embarrassed and ashamed of the performance (or lack there of) of the Green Bay Packers. Management quit on the coach, firing him with 4 games to go in the season, and today the players quit and became punks at home to the 6-10 motor city kitties.

The management structure of the organization is chaotic, with a general manager who doesn't have the power to even hire a head coach - not that I have been particularly impressed by his work so far as the general manager of the Packers.

The sun will come up tomorrow, and I will still be a Green Bay Packer football fan. And the opportunity to rebuild this franchise lies on the horizon. But today is a very dark day and a low point for the Green Bay Packers
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline marklawrence

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2018, 03:49:31 PM »
Situational players are easy to get.

But we're two playmakers away from contending.

JJ Watt could have been one of them.

The good news is our 1sts are now worth more than Chicago's. Especially since they don't got none.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 03:52:09 PM by marklawrence »
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” -- John F. Kennedy.

Offline ricky

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2018, 04:12:42 PM »
Yep, those holiday blues, with the addition of the Packers totally chaotic season is definitely a bummer. Suddenly, all those who saw a growing rift between AR and MM have been proved to be correct. Now, the new organizational chart will be tested. Lets see, the HC reports to the GM, who reports to Murphy, who reports to "the board". And the knee bone is connected...
 
Meanwhile, lets remember that this has been a particularly bad year for injuries for the team. An excuse? You decide.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2018_injuries.htm  There are a lot of starters on that list, both on IR and playing hurt enough to affect their play.

This is not meant to excuse the team for putrid play. This is a team that didn't play a complete four quarters of football all year. They have a QB that needs to be reined in, and there are glaring weaknesses on both sides of the ball. But no area is without talent. OK, maybe special teams, but with the addition of a coach who knows what he is doing, that could be turned around very quickly. My suggestion (and I'll admit to  deadhorse) ), I'd suggest https://www.newyorkjets.com/team/coaches-roster/brant-boyer He is doing this on the Jets, who are not exactly a powerhouse, so he should be fine in GB.

Be of good cheer. There is the draft, FA and UDFA's, younger players making improvements (who foresaw Fackrell's season?). Last year the Bears went 5-11. Turning things around in one year is more than possible- I truly believe it is probable. Without seeing the schedule, I'll predict the Packers for a minimum of 10 wins next season, and more likely 12 or more. Green and gold goggles? Maybe. But then again, why not?
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline davekenya

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2018, 04:38:59 PM »
Well, at least with Carolina, Atlanta and Cleveland winning, we leapfrog them into the 12th spot for drafting.  That small change could mean something.

Offline B

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2018, 04:49:04 PM »
Well, at least with Carolina, Atlanta and Cleveland winning, we leapfrog them into the 12th spot for drafting.  That small change could mean something.

Indeed, that was the small glimmer of light in an otherwise pretty dark day.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline SSGCujo

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2018, 05:01:58 PM »
This team is in dire need of playmakers. The only way this team contends next year is to have an outstanding draft, at least 3-4 starters and find 2-3 players in free agency. The players HAVE to be edge rusher and safety. This roster maybe flipped in half next season. As good as Ted was in his first 5-6 drafts, he was terrible in his last three. The talent drain that still can't be made up for. The offense should be easier to fix than the defense. Rodgers really needs to go back to his fundamentals. Maybe he should spend some time in the off-season working with his young receivers.

Offline craig

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2018, 05:30:18 PM »
With a bunch of family in Minnesota, watched most of Vikings-Bears, and much of first half Packers-Lions.  The o-line and pressure-differential in both games was striking.  Poor Cousins gets ripped for being paid but not being a big-game winner, but that guy had zero time and was under non-stop pressure.  No time and no chance whatsoever.  Not quite as bad for Rodgers, but think the the o-line is too vulnerable.  I know the general emphasis is that we need to dedicate yet another draft to the perpetually ineffective defense.  But I kinda feel like with our aging and vulnerable o-line, that needs some serious attention soon, too.  Bakhti has a great reputation, but he made some terrible plays during first half.  Penalty, totally whiffed on a run-blocking play to allow an easy tackle-in-backfield, pressured, backed into Aaron's face very rapidly.  Rodgers, Adams, and Bakhti are supposed to be our 3 good players on offense, but Rodgers can't throw straight and Bakhti has been looking pretty vulnerable lately too. 

Have just had such weak drafting for some time, just don't think there is strength in any position group. 

Chicago has really improved over the course of the season.  That defense is really, really good at this point. 

Offline JQ

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2018, 06:08:26 PM »
If the Bears can make a one-year turnaround like they have, I sure think the Packers can do it. Start with the right hire as head coach, and do the housecleaning needed. Is Zook still here? Clear some more cap space by jettisoning some big money contracts. Waive others who just aren’t that good. I believe Green Bay can quickly return to relevance in the NFC. There are some pieces in place, in my opinion. But Gute and Murphy have their work cut out for them rebuilding their coaching and front office staff as well as the roster.

As for Bakhtiari struggling today-the dude’s been playing hurt the past several weeks, he was questionable for today...again. But he’s a warrior and went as long as he could. He’s 27 years old; in the prime of his career, and arguably one of the very best left tackles in NFL. Linsley, I think has had a solid year too. Lane Taylor has also been hurt, and hasn’t played as well as last year. The right side of that O-Line is ugly, and although there may be a couple salvageable backups in on the roster or PS, I definitely agree the OL needs plenty of work.

As for the Bears, that Fangio-led Chicago defense is really salty, and now that they’ve integrated Mack and rookie Roquan Smith it will be tough to deal with for the next few years, as long as their main guys stay healthy.

Nagy has breathed new life into the culture there as well, his leadership has quickly converted the bears loser mentality into one that now has plenty of swagger. I think we ought to be grateful they drafted Trubisky rather than Patrick Mahomes.

This off-season will be most interesting indeed. Film at 11...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 06:22:57 PM by JQ »

Offline Shinesman

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2018, 09:35:56 PM »
If the Bears can make a one-year turnaround like they have, I sure think the Packers can do it. Start with the right hire as head coach, and do the housecleaning needed. Is Zook still here? Clear some more cap space by jettisoning some big money contracts. Waive others who just aren’t that good. I believe Green Bay can quickly return to relevance in the NFC. There are some pieces in place, in my opinion. But Gute and Murphy have their work cut out for them rebuilding their coaching and front office staff as well as the roster.

As for Bakhtiari struggling today-the dude’s been playing hurt the past several weeks, he was questionable for today...again. But he’s a warrior and went as long as he could. He’s 27 years old; in the prime of his career, and arguably one of the very best left tackles in NFL. Linsley, I think has had a solid year too. Lane Taylor has also been hurt, and hasn’t played as well as last year. The right side of that O-Line is ugly, and although there may be a couple salvageable backups in on the roster or PS, I definitely agree the OL needs plenty of work.

As for the Bears, that Fangio-led Chicago defense is really salty, and now that they’ve integrated Mack and rookie Roquan Smith it will be tough to deal with for the next few years, as long as their main guys stay healthy.

Nagy has breathed new life into the culture there as well, his leadership has quickly converted the bears loser mentality into one that now has plenty of swagger. I think we ought to be grateful they drafted Trubisky rather than Patrick Mahomes.

This off-season will be most interesting indeed. Film at 11...

The bears were also willing to spend. In cash and draft capital. Something green bay has been unwilling to do (unless its throwing cash at it's own draft picks for their second contracts).
"Tradition! Just because we've always done it that way, doesn't mean that it isn't incredibly stupid."

Offline Gregg

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2018, 10:59:04 PM »
Good point.  The Bear were willing to give up two number ones for Mack.

We apparently were not.  He made their defense.   

TT's draft and develop strategy ended up failing in the long run when his drafts turned out to be mediocre, about three times in a row.

Now, IMO, we have to go the Ron Wolf route and fine some good FA's.  In addition to hitting on the draft.  Plus we have to cut off the excess baggage to clear salary space.  And we have to hit in the right coach.

It can be done, but everything has to fall into place. 

Offline marklawrence

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2018, 11:14:51 PM »
The bears offered 100 dollars.

Wee offered 100 rupees.

They were both 100, right?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” -- John F. Kennedy.

Offline B

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2018, 04:33:57 AM »
The myth of the one year turn around
Bears:
   Reg. Season   Playoffs   Coordinators
Year   Coach   G   W   L   T   W-L%   G   W   L   Offense   Defense

2017   John Fox.   16   5   11   0   .313   0   0   0      Dowell Loggains   Vic Fangio
2016   John Fox   16   3   13   0   .188   0   0   0      Dowell Loggains   Vic Fangio
2015   John Fox   16   6   10   0   .375   0   0   0      Adam Gase   Vic Fangio
2014   Trestman   16   5   11   0   .313   0   0   0      Aaron Kromer   Mel Tucker
2013   Trestman   16   8   8   0   .500   0   0   0      Aaron Kromer   Mel Tucker
2012   L. Smith   16   10   6   0   .625   0   0   0      Mike Tice   Rod Marinelli
2011   L. Smith   16   8   8   0   .500   0   0   0      Mike Martz   Rod Marinelli
2010   L. Smith   16   11   5   0   .688   2   1   1      Mike Martz   Rod Marinelli
2009   L. Smith   16   7   9   0   .438   0   0   0      Ron Turner   Bob Babich

Lions
   Reg. Season   Playoffs   Coordinators
Year   Coach   G   W   L   T   W-L%   G   W   L      Offense   Defense
2018   Matt Patricia   15   5   10   0   .333   0   0   0      Jim Bob Cooter   Paul Pasqualoni
2017   Jim Caldwell   16   9   7   0   .563   0   0   0      Jim Bob Cooter   Teryl Austin
2016   Jim Caldwell   16   9   7   0   .563   1   0   1      Jim Bob Cooter   Teryl Austin
2015   Jim Caldwell   16   7   9   0   .438   0   0   0      Jim Bob Cooter, Joe Lombardi   Teryl Austin
2014   Jim Caldwell   16   11   5   0   .688   1   0   1      Joe Lombardi   Teryl Austin
2013   Jim Schwartz   16   7   9   0   .438   0   0   0      Scott Linehan   Gunther Cunningham
2012   Jim Schwartz   16   4   12   0   .250   0   0   0      Scott Linehan   Gunther Cunningham
2011   Jim Schwartz   16   10   6   0   .625   1   0   1      Scott Linehan   Gunther Cunningham
2010   Jim Schwartz   16   6   10   0   .375   0   0

Vikings

Reg. Season   Playoffs   Coordinators
Year   Coach   G   W   L   T   W-L%   G   W   L      Offense   Defense
2018   Mike Zimmer   15   8   6   1   .567   0   0   0      John DeFilippo   George Edwards
2017   Mike Zimmer   16   13   3   0   .813   2   1   1      Pat Shurmur   George Edwards
2016   Mike Zimmer   16   8   8   0   .500   0   0   0      Pat Shurmur, Norv Turner   George Edwards
2015   Mike Zimmer   16   11   5   0   .688   1   0   1      Norv Turner   George Edwards
2014   Mike Zimmer   16   7   9   0   .438   0   0   0      Norv Turner   George Edwards
2013   Leslie Frazier   16   5   10   1   .344   0   0   0      Bill Musgrave   Alan Williams
2012   Leslie Frazier   16   10   6   0   .625   1   0   1      Bill Musgrave   Alan Williams
2011   Leslie Frazier   16   3   13   0   .188   0   0   0      Bill Musgrave   Fred Pagac
2010   Leslie Frazier   6   3   3   0   .500   0   0   0      Darrell Bevell   Fred Pagac
Brad Childress   10   3   7   0   .300   0   0   0      Darrell Bevell   Leslie Frazier, Fred Pagac

The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline packlaw

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2018, 05:05:35 AM »
The myth of the one year turnaround?  The da Bears did turnaround from 2017 (earlier) to 2018.  The Lions are still struggling and the Vikes may be on the downside as their defense is getting older and their offense really sputtered yesterday.  The Pack is not in disarray it is adjusting to a new order.  The question is how good is our core and what do we need to make the turnaround.  On offense, we have play makers in Rogers, Adams, Baktari (when healthy), Jones and Lindsey,  Thus, we need an upgrade to the right side of the line, tight end and a #2 receiver.  All of which can be found in the draft or free agency.  On the defense, the play makers are Clarke and Daniels.  A play maker is needed on the edge and at Isafety.  Our corners, when healthy are more than adequate.  An upgrade at cover linebacker is needed.  Thus, our priority is to find the best safety and edge rusher.  The safety of necessity must be a free agent as experience is required.  An edge rusher should be available at #12.  the only caveat I have is the free agents should be under thirty and in or near their prime.  If the above is accomplished and our team stays healthy we can compete next year for the division.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2018, 06:18:52 AM »
B is right.

This isn't a one year turn around. Two? Maybe. But more likely three years.

Sure, CHI made a big turn around from 2017 to 2018, but look at what they did under a microscope before we say GB can do it in one year.

The Bears spent huge money in FA and signed players who made a difference in 2018 (Burton/TE, Robinson/WR, Gabriel/WR, Mack/OLB, Lynch/LB, Daniel/QB), plus they resigned 3 or 4 of their own FA's that were key to this season.

I just don't see GB spending that much money in one free agency frenzy spending spree. Just not gonna happen.

They will likely target 2 or 3 FA's this year (at least one on the first day of free agency), and the Packers will look to the draft to address other needs. But the needs are so wide and deep that there is just no way you can get it done in one year.

I'd like to believe they could, but thinking rationally, it's just not possible.

And it's not only the holes in several position groups and the depth of talent.

It's also Who-What-and When they hire as a new HC. Offensive or Defensive HC?

What system will he bring?
How long will it take GB to find the right talent to make all the "gears" work properly, and how long to integrate/learn a new offensive system to be proficient?
What will the next defensive system be? What pieces are in place and what is still needed?
Special teams are almost an entire rebuild. At least the K and P are fairly stable pieces at this time.

It's just not a one year turn around. Wish I could think otherwise.

Offline JQ

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Re: A franchise in shambles...
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2018, 07:14:20 AM »
Point taken. The Bears have been far more active in free agency, scoring big time when they acquired Akiem Hicks, who is now at the heart of that defense.

The Bears have also hit on some really good players in the draft, particularly their nice running back combo of Howard and Cohen. Then this year with Roquon Smith, who looks likes he’s going to be a good player. Their safeties, Adrian Amos and Eddie Jackson, have been solid mid-round picks.

I think Nagy has been a real difference maker though, and has changed Chicago’s culture from “loser” to “Swagger.” He was wise to keep Fangio on board too, so he can continue to evolve that defense.

Realistically, like B’s graphic points out with Chicago, I think the Packers are a two years away, maybe three, from climbing back into that top tier of the NFC and the NFL, and that assumes that Rodgers can regain some of his old form. At his point, I’m really beginning to wonder... I think GB can get back of the positive side of .500 next year, and I’d be satisfied with that. It might even get them back into the playoffs. There’s a bunch of nine win teams this year.

But the restoration of the Packers has to start with mining a head coach who has moxie, creativity, and the humility to surround himself with a GREAT staff. He’ll also need the psyche to work with Rodgers, and an understanding of the tradition and culture of the Green Bay Packers in Wisconsin.

It’s a tall order, and that’s ALOT of boxes to check, and of course, it’s only my opinion. I’m not really invested in any one guy, but there are a bunch of guys I DO NOT want to see in Green Bay, most of whom are worn out retreads or proven losers at the NFL. I doubt Mike Tomlin will be available, but he’s somebody that intrigues me, and I have to believe Gute/Murphy would want to interview him.

That is all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 07:57:42 AM by JQ »