January 18, 2019, 06:41:09 AM

Author Topic: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur  (Read 2515 times)

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Offline Bignutz

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2019, 02:36:33 AM »
Amen to Zook being gone.
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Online craig

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2019, 06:26:15 AM »
I mentioned indications that LaFleur is pretty committed to the run.  MM usually had guys run up the middle on first downs, or at least they usually did so.  (How often does Williams go around the outside?)  But there was some indication of LaFleur using outside zone reads and stuff. 

As he noted, of course, it's all about using your players.  So if the guys blocking the outside are Bakthi, Bulaga, and Jimmy Graham, maybe their limits as run-blockers is reason not to try tons of outside running, if you don't have the blockers to make it work!  Likewise Williams obviously doesn't have the make-you-miss shiftiness or speed to get around the outside that the Atlanta backs had when LaFleur was there. 

Jones obviously isn't a burner, but he does have some of the shiftiness to go outside, and maybe some creativity if you throw him the ball.  But they'll obviously need to see what the line can actually allow to work.  And then especially so once injuries on the line change the personnel, or reduce the capacities of guys playing with injuries. 

Offline RT

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2019, 06:44:12 AM »
Always enjoy your posts craig, but you have been pounding this false narrative lately about the Packers poor run blocking and the people that analyze these things for a living say differently. If the Packers were a poor run blocking team this past season then no one was a good run blocking team this past season.

https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/1079820221995724800

 

Online craig

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2019, 07:00:42 AM »
I think the Packers *interior* has been really good for *run-blocking*.  There has been much complaint about the *interior pass protection* and the right guard spot and stuff in terms of the *passing game*.  But I think the interior run-blocking has been outstanding, and I think that's where a lot of the good run-stats come from. 
[Note:  I don't see it as real power-blocking, though?  Which is why I don't seem to recall them having confidence on 3rd-and-1 that they can consistently just drive-block for short-yardage?  (Not many o-lines can, of course..)]

The outside OT's are different.  Whereas the interior is run-strong, the OT's are highly regarded and scored for their *pass blocking*.  But being high-scoring pass-blockers does not necessarily mean they are unusually good as *runs blockers".  I don't actually know.  I think it was maybe you who posted that they were scored as the #2/3 pass blockers, and I asked how they scored as run blockers, but if you posted that I don't recall seeing it.  (I'm still curious.) 

Maybe they still score fine in run blocking, just not as high as they score for pass protection?   

I'd love to see a full running game that can be good running outside as well as inside, and I think Jones has done that, with the blocking, better than we've tended to see in Green Bay over my Rodgers-era memory. 

I'm just saying that personnel dictates everything, and whether Bulaga and his ankles and stuff can support a vigorous outside-run game, remains to be seen.

Online craig

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2019, 07:04:42 AM »
More run game, here's a post from the other board I check sometimes from a Titans fan this morning.  Obviously it's just one poster, and as we know from message boards, the same team can be viewed by 100 different fans from totally 100 different perspectives, so I have no idea.  I just copy it because it is another comment to the effect that he seemed to be perceived by Titans fans as run-committed, even if that didn't seem to be working too well for them. 

"Posted 8 hours ago
I didn’t read through all your thread but I did some. Big titans fan here. The only reason any of us are sad about losing him is because giving Marcus continuity and now he has to learn another system. I personally don’t think he’s ready to be a head coach. He wasn’t that great this year for us. After losing Delanie and having scrub receivers I think he could do well with a thriving offense but I wasn’t sold on him as OC and personally I’m glad he’s gone. He was very green this year for a oc had a lot of up and downs. He relied to much on the run when we had no running game this first 3 quarters of the season. He would throw in some new stuff we didn’t see with mularkeys crap offense but all in all we didn’t improve much under him. I wish you guys well but everything you guys are praising from his past I read we did as well last year and we didn’t see much of any improvement. He wouldve gotten a job next year because of the oc trend and finding the next McVay so I don’t think it’s a reach hire but at the same time I don’t see him as a leader that a coach should be. Just my two cents from a loyal titan fan."

Offline majikwen

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2019, 07:06:08 AM »
the Packers need 3 new starters on the oline. Baktiari and Linsey are the only 2 keepers. I would sign Bulaga to a backup salary ( great player but can't stay healthy ) and replace the rest of the roster. all the teams left in the playoffs are the best oline's in the NFL. Protect Rodgers and run the ball !!

Offline GBRoCk2

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2019, 07:26:51 AM »
the Packers need 3 new starters on the oline. Baktiari and Linsey are the only 2 keepers. I would sign Bulaga to a backup salary ( great player but can't stay healthy ) and replace the rest of the roster. all the teams left in the playoffs are the best oline's in the NFL. Protect Rodgers and run the ball !!
Bulaga is on contract for another year, I doubt we cut him only to re-sign him. Also, we did ask him to take a pay cut last year I believe and he rejected that notion.

In my opinion, if he is cut, he isn't coming back. Unfortunately, we are in sort of an interesting position in that we could really use any body on the right side of our offensive line, Spriggs hasn't shown much in terms of development, so it wouldn't surprise me much if Bulaga was around for another year, he is good when on the field, but that really has been the problem.

But I am with you, invest in some more offensive line to protect Rodgers and improve run blocking.

Offline RT

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2019, 08:11:44 AM »
More run game, here's a post from the other board I check sometimes from a Titans fan this morning.  Obviously it's just one poster, and as we know from message boards, the same team can be viewed by 100 different fans from totally 100 different perspectives, so I have no idea.  I just copy it because it is another comment to the effect that he seemed to be perceived by Titans fans as run-committed, even if that didn't seem to be working too well for them. 

"Posted 8 hours ago
I didn’t read through all your thread but I did some. Big titans fan here. The only reason any of us are sad about losing him is because giving Marcus continuity and now he has to learn another system. I personally don’t think he’s ready to be a head coach. He wasn’t that great this year for us. After losing Delanie and having scrub receivers I think he could do well with a thriving offense but I wasn’t sold on him as OC and personally I’m glad he’s gone. He was very green this year for a oc had a lot of up and downs. He relied to much on the run when we had no running game this first 3 quarters of the season. He would throw in some new stuff we didn’t see with mularkeys crap offense but all in all we didn’t improve much under him. I wish you guys well but everything you guys are praising from his past I read we did as well last year and we didn’t see much of any improvement. He wouldve gotten a job next year because of the oc trend and finding the next McVay so I don’t think it’s a reach hire but at the same time I don’t see him as a leader that a coach should be. Just my two cents from a loyal titan fan."


In reading this it made me think of the quote, 'In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king'. I think I will trust the Packers and their vetting process over Titan fan, message board guy.

Online craig

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2019, 10:27:56 AM »
:):):) 

Sure!  My real point is simply that it seems he's perceived as a run-a-lot guy.  Have the Packers said anything otherwise?   Running a lot may be great, and may be exactly what the Packers and their vetting process prefer, and that may set up a beautifully balanced offense and team. 

Just maybe don't expect to shift towards a more pass-oriented attack; if anything, the shift may be in the opposite direction?

I think sometimes posters associate "young and creative" and McVay and Shanahan with creative passing schemes and an innovative and effective passing game that confuses defenses, that schemes guys open, and that provides improved throwing opportunities for the QB.  By many accounts, LaFleur may indeed provide all of that, I hope he does! 

But I'm just perhaps cautioning that a mind-association pathway that goes "creative" => "passing game" => "pass-a-lot" may not be getting to the right place?  He may be plenty creative, hopefully brilliant, in the passing game.  But it doesn't mean his % frequency of passing plays will exceed or equal the league average. 

Think there's a good chance that as has been true in more than half of MM's years, that run/pass ratio will be slightly higher than league normal. 

I might hope for that, actually, myself.  Having a high run/pass ratio isn't that great if it correlates a low volume of first downs and a high volume of 1-2-3-punt series.  But I think really good offenses that are able to score consistently and sustain long drives, that tends to be only possible if they can run very effectively as well as passing very effectively; the two benefit and play off of each other, and the defenses have to concede one or the other, etc.. 

Plus obviously run/pass ratio goes up when you're winning, and perhaps trying to kill clock in the 4th quarter. 

Online craig

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2019, 10:42:01 AM »
From The Athletic

Quote
A source close to the Titans organization said:

LaFleur displayed several impressive characteristics during a year that might appear mediocre to the casual viewer:

LaFleur did a terrific job installing the offense for the first time and teaching the system to multiple quarterbacks as starter Marcus Mariota battled injuries and backup Blaine Gabbert finished the year under center.
LaFleur was extremely adaptable after No. 1 tight end Delanie Walker — a focal point of the offense — suffered a season-ending injury in Week 1. This trend continued all season, the source said, as LaFleur’s game plans were tailored to the personnel available each week rather than plugging and playing the next available man.
LaFleur flashed the makings of a progressive play caller capable of building on certain concepts throughout a game by laying traps and having a variety of plays from the same personnel groupings or formations.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2019, 11:12:21 AM »
Has anyone considered that since Vrabel is the HC at TENN that maybe he had some input regarding a run heavy approach to the offense. After all, Vrabel has a tough guy persona and maybe he wanted that reflected on both sides of the ball.

 twocents)

Online craig

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2019, 12:33:34 PM »
Good point, Danno.  I hadn't!

Offline ricky

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2019, 01:31:09 PM »
Has anyone considered that since Vrabel is the HC at TENN that maybe he had some input regarding a run heavy approach to the offense. After all, Vrabel has a tough guy persona and maybe he wanted that reflected on both sides of the ball.

 twocents)

An example of an OC not following the coach's intstructions to run the ball more was in Minny, where Ziesmmer fired DeFelippo for ignoring Zimmer's "suggestion" the Vikings run the ball more. So, definitely a factor. Besides, haven't we been complaining for quite a while about how few touches Jones gets? Besides, Favre extended the life of his career several years when the Packers had a dominating running game with Ahman Green and a terrific OL. 
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Offline #66

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2019, 04:34:45 PM »




So, kind of comes across to me as a relatively conservative guy who's probably going to run it up the middle and set up a lot of 2nd-and-long plays just as MM tended to do. 



How in the world do you know that?

He is actually someone who works for explosive offensive plays.  He believes that yards = points and does not have the goal of "dinking and dunking" down the field.  In TN he lost their best perimeter player in Delanie Walker in Week 1 and had poor WRs.  He had good backs.  Toss in an injured and porous OL.  Of course, he stuck with the run.

Expect to see RBs on the field.  He loves passing to RBs and he does prefer a zone scheme in the run game.  But, also, expect a dynamic pass game that relies on route concepts to get targets open.  Expect an offense that evolves to best exploit the weaknesses of a defense.  Expect an offense that caters to the strength of the QB.
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Offline Shinesman

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Packers Zeroing In On LeFleur
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2019, 05:13:54 PM »
Good point on the BR stream. Packers hurry and hire Lafleur, before doing second interviews with other candidates, even though Lafleur didnt have any other interviews scheduled.
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