February 16, 2019, 06:11:01 PM

Author Topic: Dance of the lemmings  (Read 356 times)

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Offline Gregg

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Dance of the lemmings
« on: January 29, 2019, 12:45:35 PM »
2011 was a good draft year to show how the NFL teams insists on being QB crazy even when there are not good QBs.

Four QBs were taken in the first round.  Only one turned out to be any good, Cam Newton.  Locker and Ponder are gone and Gabbert is a back up.  Do you want a number one top of the round pick for these kinds of guys?

It is going to happen again this year.  Its not a good QB year but now they are saying there will be three taken at the top of the first round: Haskins, Lock and Jones.

I have never been able to understand this. And I never will.  If you can take a good player elsewhere why not just wait a year.  Or take a QB prospect later?  Prescott turned out pretty well didn't he?  Why blow a top pick on a question mark?

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2019, 01:15:49 PM »
Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick I believe.
Kirk Cousins was a 4th rounder.

I'd bet there are/were some decent QB's over the years that never got the chance to develop because they had to sit behind the 1st round draft pick on their team.


Online ricky

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 02:17:40 PM »
Why draft a QB early? Because without a very good QB you really don't have much of a chance of being a einning franchise. Sure, Trent Dilfer and the Ravens, but then again, Shaun King and the Buccaneers, who won a SB with Brad Johnson. Most of the SB winning QB's were really good. Even the losers weren't terrible. So, why draft a QB early? Because you need to. Why not wait a year? Because your owner and fan base are screamling for a winner NOW! And if the owner is a meddler, ala Haslam (Cleveland), Jones (Dallas) or Snyder (Washington), then the pressure is literally impossible to ignore.

Also just saw this over at PFT: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/29/jared-goff-can-join-the-list-of-super-bowl-winning-first-overall-qbs/
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 02:32:43 PM by ricky »
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 06:10:40 PM »

Online ricky

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2019, 09:00:28 PM »


Truly one of the most disturbing, nightmarish commercials ever aired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbXSbP-wEFU

"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline Gregg

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 07:03:46 AM »
I think I see how it relates.

Thanks.

Offline Shinesman

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 07:14:21 AM »
Why draft a QB early? Because without a very good QB you really don't have much of a chance of being a einning franchise. Sure, Trent Dilfer and the Ravens, but then again, Shaun King and the Buccaneers, who won a SB with Brad Johnson. Most of the SB winning QB's were really good. Even the losers weren't terrible. So, why draft a QB early? Because you need to. Why not wait a year? Because your owner and fan base are screamling for a winner NOW! And if the owner is a meddler, ala Haslam (Cleveland), Jones (Dallas) or Snyder (Washington), then the pressure is literally impossible to ignore.

Also just saw this over at PFT: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/29/jared-goff-can-join-the-list-of-super-bowl-winning-first-overall-qbs/

Not if the QB isnt very good. That's his point. They arent very good, so why is everyone clamoring for them? There isnt an Andrew Luck or Cam Newton in this draft who is ready to play. I'm all for letting other teams waste early picks on over-valued guys. It saves some talent for us.
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Offline Bignutz

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2019, 07:43:14 AM »



Applaud for you , needed a laugh this AM!
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Online ricky

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2019, 03:59:29 PM »
Not if the QB isnt very good. That's his point. They arent very good, so why is everyone clamoring for them? There isnt an Andrew Luck or Cam Newton in this draft who is ready to play. I'm all for letting other teams waste early picks on over-valued guys. It saves some talent for us.

They're no good because they didn't hack it in the NFL. But no one knew that before they were drafted. You study their tape, talk to lots of people, interview them, watch their tryouts, and then take a chance. And that can all be undone if the player, who was showing some ability, has a serious injury in year two or three. Its all too easy to say, "They shouldn't have drafted that guy", or they should have known better after the fact. Sometimes, though, this thinking is correct. Kyle Boller, Johnny Manziel, Brady Quinn- these guys should have NEVER been drafted as high as they were. But, as noted earlier, sometimes its a meddling owner who falls in love with a prospect, and then, a draft pick is wasted.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline Shinesman

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2019, 02:56:29 AM »
Not if the QB isnt very good. That's his point. They arent very good, so why is everyone clamoring for them? There isnt an Andrew Luck or Cam Newton in this draft who is ready to play. I'm all for letting other teams waste early picks on over-valued guys. It saves some talent for us.

They're no good because they didn't hack it in the NFL. But no one knew that before they were drafted. You study their tape, talk to lots of people, interview them, watch their tryouts, and then take a chance. And that can all be undone if the player, who was showing some ability, has a serious injury in year two or three. Its all too easy to say, "They shouldn't have drafted that guy", or they should have known better after the fact. Sometimes, though, this thinking is correct. Kyle Boller, Johnny Manziel, Brady Quinn- these guys should have NEVER been drafted as high as they were. But, as noted earlier, sometimes its a meddling owner who falls in love with a prospect, and then, a draft pick is wasted.

QBs sell tickets, the NFL thus, hyped new QBs. Many of these guys are easy to tell that they wont amount to much other than an average Joe. The only guy who has surprised is Mahomes, but he wasnt taken top 15 either was he? And mayfield was a pleasant surprise. Other that that..... not too many guys lighting up out there for such promising media coverage.
"Tradition! Just because we've always done it that way, doesn't mean that it isn't incredibly stupid."

Online ricky

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2019, 08:37:16 AM »
QBs sell tickets, the NFL thus, hyped new QBs. Many of these guys are easy to tell that they wont amount to much other than an average Joe. The only guy who has surprised is Mahomes, but he wasnt taken top 15 either was he? And mayfield was a pleasant surprise. Other that that..... not too many guys lighting up out there for such promising media coverage.

Winning teams sell tickets. QB's are essential to having a winning team. The problem is that there is no real way to measure how well a guy will transition from college to the pros. How many "sure fire, can't miss" draft prospects have crashed and burned? A lot. You do all the research, do everything you can to decide who will make an impact, draft the guy, and find out he can't hack it. This is not just at QB, but any position. Then, there are the guys who fail with one team but blossom on another. And vice versa.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2019, 11:49:58 AM »

Applaud for you , needed a laugh this AM!

Thanks nutz.   thumbsup)

I don't think anyone else understood why I posted that.

Offline Bignutz

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2019, 01:59:41 PM »
 hatsoff)

Applaud for you , needed a laugh this AM!

Thanks nutz.   thumbsup)

I don't think anyone else understood why I posted that.
thumbsup)
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Offline Bignutz

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2019, 02:00:45 PM »
QBs sell tickets, the NFL thus, hyped new QBs. Many of these guys are easy to tell that they wont amount to much other than an average Joe. The only guy who has surprised is Mahomes, but he wasnt taken top 15 either was he? And mayfield was a pleasant surprise. Other that that..... not too many guys lighting up out there for such promising media coverage.

Winning teams sell tickets. QB's are essential to having a winning team. The problem is that there is no real way to measure how well a guy will transition from college to the pros. How many "sure fire, can't miss" draft prospects have crashed and burned? A lot. You do all the research, do everything you can to decide who will make an impact, draft the guy, and find out he can't hack it. This is not just at QB, but any position. Then, there are the guys who fail with one team but blossom on another. And vice versa.



Exactly! thumbsup) thumbsup) thumbsup)
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Online The GM

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Re: Dance of the lemmings
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2019, 02:11:53 PM »
Problem is there is such a jump from the NCAA to the NFL.  People get enamored with the physical skills.  You gotta be pretty smart to be a successful QB in the NFL. As Steve Young said "In college everyone is open, in the NFL, nobody is open".  Finding those guys who can make the jump is pretty tough.  Finding a decent QB is hard enough, and finding a franchise QB can be like looking for a needle in a haystack.