April 19, 2019, 05:36:09 PM

Author Topic: GB and the WR position  (Read 1655 times)

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Offline #66

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GB and the WR position
« on: January 30, 2019, 03:46:08 PM »
I thought that it might be interesting to give the WR position it's own thread.  Many of us on this board have varying thoughts as to what GB currently has and also what they need.  I am of the belief that while it would be nice to upgrade the WR position that there are other positions of greater need and that the capital may be poorly spent at this position when EDGE, OL, and S are bigger holes - not to mention that other positions need to be upgraded as well.  Slot will surely be a position of greater emphasis in the MLF era and it was a weakness last year.  Personally, I think that the combination of Kumerow and EQ have the potential to fill this void.  I also like their target size and wing span.  EQ, especially, has a high ceiling and I am hesitant to bring in a veteran that may stunt his development as I have big hopes for him.  So much of the Slot position is about being in sync with the QB and Kumerow has shown this ability.  EQ should display it better in Year 2 than his rookie year.  I do not have faith in a FA doing so.  Therefore, unless a stud WR falls to GB, I would not take a WR super early AND I would not spend a lot on the FA market for a WR either.
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Offline Shinesman

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2019, 03:02:37 AM »
I'll take MVS over EQ. And Kumerow should be our new slot.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 11:21:30 AM »
Agree with your post #66.

I was in favor of a FA slot WR earlier, but have been rethinking that lately.

From what I have read, it is thought that the passing game of the new offense that MLF will install will require multiple body types and skill sets.

Small quick slot WR
Big fast boundary WR
Big possession type WR
A #1 go to type WR (can do all things)

This is a passing personnel philosophy used/endorsed by MLF's mentors/influencers.

What may change in GB's situation, as you have aptly noted, is that Kumerow and ESB could be candidates to be significant contributors out of the slot.

Allison and Lazard fit the large possession type WR.

EVS is the boundary burner.

Tae is the #1 do it all guy, and hopefully Moore understudies behind him this year. Having watched college tape on Moore, his moves in and out of breaks, the things he does to create separation are eerily similar to what Tae does so well.

What they may still do is draft a small body type WR to give them an option at slot to take advantage of certain personnel packages that other teams may employ.
It would be nice if the draft pick could also be proficient in P/K returns.

Offline #66

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2019, 04:12:27 PM »
I think/hope that we can agree that Slot play needs to improve from last year AND that it will be a more important position in the MLF offense.  If the LA offense is any example, it slowed down this year when Kupp was injured. 

I think that Kumerow can be somewhat of an Edelman type that is just plain in sync with the QB on qick hitting and extremely precise routes.  I think that EQ can be that big target down and across the middle.  DA will get his snaps at Slot to keep the D a bit off balance.

I don't think that MVS will get many snaps in slot as I see him as a boundary/speed WR.

Allison was a clinician on the sidelines and was having a breakout year before his injury.

Danno - the DA/Moore comparison is so accurate all the way down to Moore having hands issues as a rookie.  Remember when posters here wanted DA cut???  It would be a dream scenario for Moore to progress anywhere near how DA has.

Furthermore, I think that JG is going to be used differently at TE this next year and I would not be surprised to see more targets going to RBs.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi

Offline RT

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2019, 08:52:10 AM »
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Gutekunst was "really happy" with last year's rookie WRs. "I think the future for those three guys is really bright."

Offline Hands

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 10:54:07 AM »
That slot position was catered to the skill set for Cobb. In essence he became the #2 receiver because of his ability to get open over the middle and quick strike passes from Rodgers. Without Cobb, the slot receiver still needs that quickness for short burst so he can get open over the middle and safety valve receiver/move the chains receiver. Crowder/Tate/John Brown/Humphries all fit that bill. DeShaun Jackson would be a great addition except he's not strictly an over the middle guy like the rest.
The biggest question is if Cobb is released...is the slot position adequately covered and does Green Bay have a true #2 receiver? That answer I really don't know.
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Offline The GM

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 01:05:30 PM »
They need WRs who can get open.  If LaFleur plans on running the ball, opponents can stick 8 in the box.   You are going to need big jumps from those first year WRs from last year.  The question is if teams stop our run, can our current WRs carry the load?  JMO, but I think we could use some help there.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 01:07:01 PM by The GM »

Online ricky

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 04:53:45 PM »
Sports talk radio and other sports talking heads all seem to be in agreement- that Antonio Brown is headed for the Packers. This always seemed to be nonsense to me- too much money, too much baggage, wrong side of 30 (he'll be 31 at the start of the season). But then, today, a guy said something that made me reconsider. Paraphrasing, he said that the Packers need to get out of their "comfort zone" and take a few chances. That the window is rapidly closing for Rodgers, and getting him another weapon would be a way to show their commitment to getting the team back to the SB. I'm torn, but recall when they brought in Andre Rison. Could that work out again? Big risk, big possible reward.
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Offline RT

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 04:56:52 PM »
They need WRs who can get open.  If LaFleur plans on running the ball, opponents can stick 8 in the box.   You are going to need big jumps from those first year WRs from last year.  The question is if teams stop our run, can our current WRs carry the load?  JMO, but I think we could use some help there.

Not throwing rocks at you GM, but the Packers WR's were open at a fairly consist rate last season. Tried to run some next gen stats on receivers being open and probably the best stat I could come up with is Expected Yards After Catch which is based on using tracking data as to how open the receiver is. Copper Kupp was the top rated WR last season, but interestingly enough Cobb was 9th and MVS was 11th. If people watched the all-22's each week last season, I don't think they would be questioning if WR's could get open.   

Offline The GM

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 05:35:08 PM »
They need WRs who can get open.  If LaFleur plans on running the ball, opponents can stick 8 in the box.   You are going to need big jumps from those first year WRs from last year.  The question is if teams stop our run, can our current WRs carry the load?  JMO, but I think we could use some help there.

Not throwing rocks at you GM, but the Packers WR's were open at a fairly consist rate last season. Tried to run some next gen stats on receivers being open and probably the best stat I could come up with is Expected Yards After Catch which is based on using tracking data as to how open the receiver is. Copper Kupp was the top rated WR last season, but interestingly enough Cobb was 9th and MVS was 11th. If people watched the all-22's each week last season, I don't think they would be questioning if WR's could get open.   

So was it Rodgers, the OL or a combination of both?

Offline The GM

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 05:41:11 PM »
Sports talk radio and other sports talking heads all seem to be in agreement- that Antonio Brown is headed for the Packers. This always seemed to be nonsense to me- too much money, too much baggage, wrong side of 30 (he'll be 31 at the start of the season). But then, today, a guy said something that made me reconsider. Paraphrasing, he said that the Packers need to get out of their "comfort zone" and take a few chances. That the window is rapidly closing for Rodgers, and getting him another weapon would be a way to show their commitment to getting the team back to the SB. I'm torn, but recall when they brought in Andre Rison. Could that work out again? Big risk, big possible reward.

Feel the same way.  I didnt like it but Im coming around to many of the things you brought up.  I dont think it will happen, but the thought of Adams on CB2 with no safety help is interesting.  Gotta weigh the baggage Brown brings though, and will he whine about numbers?

Id be much more interested if we could get rid of him without any damage, but he wants guaranteed money.  That would be a big risk.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 06:10:11 PM by The GM »

Offline RT

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2019, 07:30:58 PM »
They need WRs who can get open.  If LaFleur plans on running the ball, opponents can stick 8 in the box.   You are going to need big jumps from those first year WRs from last year.  The question is if teams stop our run, can our current WRs carry the load?  JMO, but I think we could use some help there.

Not throwing rocks at you GM, but the Packers WR's were open at a fairly consist rate last season. Tried to run some next gen stats on receivers being open and probably the best stat I could come up with is Expected Yards After Catch which is based on using tracking data as to how open the receiver is. Copper Kupp was the top rated WR last season, but interestingly enough Cobb was 9th and MVS was 11th. If people watched the all-22's each week last season, I don't think they would be questioning if WR's could get open.   

So was it Rodgers, the OL or a combination of both?

Rodgers just didn't trust that the rookie WR's would do what they were suppose to do. He would wait to make sure rather than trusting in them and throwing on time. Around 82% of NFL pass plays are designed to come out of the QB's hand in 2.5 seconds or less, 45 of the 53 sacks the Packers gave up last season were at 4.0 seconds or later. When one person does not do their job as designed it has a domino effect. If Rodgers ever returns to form the offense will be elite, if he plays like he has it won't matter who is added.

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2019, 02:15:30 AM »
I wouldn't expect a high pick spent on a WR, or a premium FA like Antonio Brown (I hate the idea of Brown to the Pack). 2019 is the year when we find out what we have with MVS, ESB, J'Mon Moore............and there is Kumerow and Allison as insurance. ESB in the slot is an interesting possibility. If you find that after trying them for the 2019 season, no-one on the roster is good enough for WR2, then 2020 is the time to invest a high pick there.

I think if the Packers get a WR this year, it is most likely to be a later draft pick for a little slot guy who can also be a kick/punt returner.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2019, 04:43:12 AM »
I just don't see AB as a viable solution, nor do I see the Packers making a trade deal for any other WR or signing one in FA. I used to be on the Tate bandwagon, but have changed my mind.

After reading what Gute had to say about last years rookie WR trio (MVS, ESB, and Moore) and factoring in Allison & Kumerow I just see the need for a high profile move at WR not as necessary as some other folks.

Allison, MVS, and Moore could be developing pieces at the boundary WR. Allison was off to a strong start at the #2 spot until injuries derailed what might have been a breakout season. MVS has the vertical threat ability to keep teams from stacking the box, while Moore has the same kind of quickness/suddenness that Tae has.

ESB and Kumerow could both be candidates to compete for the slot WR. They are different body types than Cobb, but the both present big targets and could be mismatches against typical slot CB's, who tend to be on the smaller/quicker side.

I can see the Packers adding a slot WR in the mid-latter rounds of the draft with the more traditional size dimensions of typical slot WR's. Maybe someone who is also capable of being a kick returner too.

Now..................my main reason's as to why I am thinking this way.

#1. Keeping Jimmy Graham suggest's that they see him fullfilling the role that they signed him to fill last year. He has something to prove to himself and the team. Look for MLF to use him differently than MM did, and with better results.

#2. Danny Vitale.
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/25/packers-fb-danny-vitale-could-thrive-in-matt-lafleurs-offense/

Quote
While Vitale has bounced around the NFL and did nothing special during his month on the Packers’ active roster last season, his skill set – developed during his time as the “super back” at Northwestern – could be a perfect match for the offense’s two new leaders. Both LaFleur and Hackett have used the fullback position in unique ways, especially in the passing game, and few fullbacks in the game have more experience as a receiver than the former Wildcat.
Vitale caught 135 passes for 1,427 yards and 11 scores at Northwestern. He played fullback, H-back, running back and slot receiver, displaying a high level of route-running ability and versatility for a player his size (6-1, 240).
Expect LaFleur to take a page out of Kyle Shanahan’s book and attempt to get the most out of Vitale as a dual-threat fullback. In San Francisco, Shanahan has used fullback Kyle Juszczyk extensively in the passing game, getting him 63 catches on 83 targets over the last two seasons.

#3. Draft one of the top TE's in this years draft. Ideally I'd like it to be Hockenson (but Fant, Smith would fit as well) because his skills as both a blocker and receiver best fits what MLF wants to do...........create the Illusion of complexity.

Having Hockenson and Vitale on the field will create all kinds of issues for opposing defenses. Add in Aaron Jones and the potential for what he could do in MLF's scheme and you begin to see why it becomes less and less of a "must have" to bring in AB or any other free agent WR.

Offline Hands

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Re: GB and the WR position
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2019, 07:15:36 AM »
For bang for the buck, I would go to Bell verses Brown. He's younger and in that outside zone read scheme, he will make an impact. I just don't think Gutsy will want to pay that much for Bell. If Yeldon/Ingram can run in that scheme...get them in FA. Bottom line, I don't see the Packer's drafting/needing a WR unless it's a major talent and can start this year in the slot.
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