October 14, 2019, 10:59:59 PM

Author Topic: Preseason 2019 Game 1  (Read 1179 times)

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Online The GM

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2019, 09:13:25 AM »
Not trying to make a stink about Trevor Davis here, but contract could end up being a factor at some point.

2019 is the final year of Davis' contract and then he's a UFA, but Shepherd is under contract through 2021.

If it's a tight decision between these two as to who better fits as Slot WR and PR, having a guy on a cheap contract for the next 3 years could come into play.

Plus, Shepherd then becomes a RFA, because he went undrafted. GB would basically control his contract for the next 4 years.

Just say'in.

Excellent point. Given a choice between a higher paid player or a cheaper player who are effectively equal physically and in terms of development, it only makes sense that the lower paid player be retained. So, definitely, Davis is in a "prove it or lose it" mode this year. Stay healthy, be productive, earn a second contract.

Davis attraction has always been his return capabilities.  Im not sure he'd still be on this team without those capabilities.  Apparently, he's made strides as a WR this camp, but until they find somebody to return kicks (Tramon?), Davis is probably on this roster.


Offline RT

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2019, 12:00:28 PM »
With a second watch of the game, 4 rookie UDFA's made a good showing of themselves. Darius Shepherd, Yosh Nijman, Curtis Bolton and Kabion Ento all are showing the NFL game is not to big for them, I will not be surprised if some of these players are on the first 53 man roster.

Online craig

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2019, 03:32:18 PM »
Thanks, RT. 

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2019, 03:55:25 PM »

Speed only kills if you can use it. Davis has yet to prove he can be relied on to stay healthy, and he's injured right now. Kumerow is definitely ahead of both St. Brown and Davis, Green Bay has said as much with their depth chart. He's listed as their number 3 ahead of Allison. It's not a fan favorite thing, he's earned it. https://www.packers.com/team/depth-chart

We can get semantical over the 2 or 3 option but he's earned himself a place in this offense and will get significant playing time this year.

Depth chart lists Kumerow as no.2's to Adams, and Allison as no.2 to MVS. In reality I expect Allison to be the no.1 choice as the slot receiver (ie 3rd choice overall). Kumerow is ahead of Davis, Allison is ahead of ESB, but you cannot judge a cutdown by their current positions. For example, a more senior player tends to be rated above a younger one until the younger one pushes ahead, even if, in many cases the younger player is playing better. Now I will admit ESB is not playing better than Kumerow, but ESB IS playing well, is faster, more athletic, has more upside, is cheaper, and is five years younger. That may well mean that LaFleur now thinks of ESB as being ahead of Kumerow when the time comes to cut guys, no matter what the current depth chart says.

In short, Kumerow is not "definitely ahead of both St. Brown and Davis" (and I said why in my earlier piece). He might be ahead in LaFleur's eyes, he might not, but the only way we really resolve this is to wait for cutdown time. The depth chart after  game 1 of the regular season should give a truer picture of the depth, when enough time has passed for re-evaluation. The snap count through the season should also be a reliable indicator, unless injuries mess everything up.

This isn't about not liking Kumerow (I defended him vigorously on Football's Future Packers site, against someone who thought he shouldn't be on our team after cutdown), it's just about where I think he rates among the Packers WRs. I've already said I see him as a no.6 receiver, but 5th is reasonable as well, 3rd is overvaluing him, I think.
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Online claymaker

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2019, 07:52:44 AM »

Speed only kills if you can use it. Davis has yet to prove he can be relied on to stay healthy, and he's injured right now. Kumerow is definitely ahead of both St. Brown and Davis, Green Bay has said as much with their depth chart. He's listed as their number 3 ahead of Allison. It's not a fan favorite thing, he's earned it. https://www.packers.com/team/depth-chart

We can get semantical over the 2 or 3 option but he's earned himself a place in this offense and will get significant playing time this year.

Depth chart lists Kumerow as no.2's to Adams, and Allison as no.2 to MVS. In reality I expect Allison to be the no.1 choice as the slot receiver (ie 3rd choice overall). Kumerow is ahead of Davis, Allison is ahead of ESB, but you cannot judge a cutdown by their current positions. For example, a more senior player tends to be rated above a younger one until the younger one pushes ahead, even if, in many cases the younger player is playing better. Now I will admit ESB is not playing better than Kumerow, but ESB IS playing well, is faster, more athletic, has more upside, is cheaper, and is five years younger. That may well mean that LaFleur now thinks of ESB as being ahead of Kumerow when the time comes to cut guys, no matter what the current depth chart says.

In short, Kumerow is not "definitely ahead of both St. Brown and Davis" (and I said why in my earlier piece). He might be ahead in LaFleur's eyes, he might not, but the only way we really resolve this is to wait for cutdown time. The depth chart after  game 1 of the regular season should give a truer picture of the depth, when enough time has passed for re-evaluation. The snap count through the season should also be a reliable indicator, unless injuries mess everything up.

This isn't about not liking Kumerow (I defended him vigorously on Football's Future Packers site, against someone who thought he shouldn't be on our team after cutdown), it's just about where I think he rates among the Packers WRs. I've already said I see him as a no.6 receiver, but 5th is reasonable as well, 3rd is overvaluing him, I think.

Well, the way it works is Adams is the number 1, MVS the number two, and the number 2 behind the number 1 is basically the runner up for the number 2 spot. You can argue all you want about his place, but the team and quarterback has spoken with their confidence in him by placing him in that spot. It's clearly his spot to lose and nobody has stepped up to challenge him. You can see him as a fifth option and borderline cut, Green Bay obviously disagrees with you because he is clearly "tied" with Allison for the 3rd spot and obviously ahead of St. Brown and Davis.

Offline RT

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2019, 08:21:58 AM »
There is a good chance that ESB, Geronimo Allison, Jake Kumerow and Allen Lazard are all battling for 2 roster spots. And I am getting the feeling that Allison and Kumerow might be battling for one spot, I will be somewhat surprised if both make the 53.

Offline RT

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2019, 08:24:00 AM »

ArmchairQB


 
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Replying to @jasonjwilde
Is Jake ahead of MVS now?





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Jason Wilde Retweeted ArmchairQB


I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. #Packers No. 1 offense is running 2-minute as we speak (er, Tweet) and its Davante, G-Mo and MVS out there.

Online craig

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2019, 09:32:04 AM »
.....Now I will admit ESB is not playing better than Kumerow, but ESB IS playing well, is faster, more athletic, has more upside, is cheaper, and is five years younger. That may well mean that LaFleur now thinks of ESB as being ahead of Kumerow when the time comes to cut guys, no matter what the current depth chart says. ....

How confident are you that ESB is playing well?  Or that he has more upside? 

I know his 40-time was a little faster, and I'm pretty confident that his straight-line speed is a shade faster, so I'm not questioning that.  And I know he's younger, that's also inarguable.

But I'm wondering if the commonly-assumed upside that tends to be assumed for ESB may be mis-assumed?  Heh heh, every talent-limited 27-year-old was 22 at one point.  :)  Just because a guy is young doesn't mean he'll ever have good NFL-talent. 

I'm not saying ESB doesn't.  Just that I'm not sure he does, and I'm not sure I've heard or seen anything from camp evidencing that he does.  If that makes sense?   To some degree his play last year perhaps evidenced some of the same talent-limits we worry about for Kumerow.  A long, tall guy who didn't seem to be notably quick at getting open?  Not very sudden at change-of-direction?   Is it possible that ESB basically *IS* a slightly-faster version of Kumerow talent-wise, with not really any better ability to get open underneath? 

I hope not, and that he really does have a bunch of talent and a high upside, perhaps for this year once his window of opportunity opens, and if not perhaps for next year and beyond.

From my amateur non-scout recall from last year, ESB impressed me in two ways:  I thought he had really promising hands.  (A really difficult catch in the 49ers game, for example.)  And I thought he looked like a willing and strong blocker, like he might become a huge force as a blocking receiver.  But I'm not sure he impressed me much in terms of getting open, if that makes sense? 

I just haven't heard much about him in camp.  Twitter is talking about all these other guys making noteworthy plays.   Before his injury Davis was always in the tweets, Kumerow, NDSU guy.  But ESB seemingly MIA, and I don't recall any ESB articles about how improved he is, or with Rodgers or coaches talking positively about how much he's improved or anything. 

That may mean nothing, of course.  He's a quiet guy and not a media magnet, so maybe he's got no articles for that reason.  And maybe he's not in the tweets for exactly the issue i'm concerned about, whether he can get open?  Maybe he CAN get open, and as a result is making routine easy catches?  Maybe twitter mostly reports on spectacular difficult catches that come from guys who can't get open and thus are well covered?  But is ESB gets open, Rodgers throws an accurate pass, and ESB makes an ordinary catch, maybe that happens all the time and never gets a twitter buzz?  Beats me! 

But I'm just a little worried that he's behind Allison and Kumerow because he doesn't get open as well as either of them, if that makes sense?   

Offline RT

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2019, 09:59:31 AM »
As is it is most years the WR debate will be a heated one, but I don't think anything has been decided yet for most of the WR's. Yet to be determined.

 
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Gutekunst on his thoughts regarding the #Packers' 53: "I think it's wide open, quite frankly. I know from my end of it, there really hasn't been many decisions made at all."

Offline RT

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2019, 10:56:11 AM »

Lily Zhao

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Equanimeous St. Brown with 2 nice snags from Tim Boyle.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2019, 01:50:16 PM »
They should be keeping players who are "playmakers".

The heck with age, size, speed, etc.

If a guy is making plays he should be on the roster.

The coaches are watching how the players go about conducting themselves in practice and games. How each of them approaches their craft and how they perform should be the only criteria for making the 53.

Offline RT

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2019, 02:13:42 PM »

Keith Jenkins


 
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Final practice this morning before Aaron Rodgers and the Packers head to Baltimore. GM Brian Gutekunst says the roster is still “wide open.” He says he and Matt LaFleur aren’t looking for the 53 best players, they’re looking for the 53 players that will make the best team.

Online craig

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2019, 02:54:26 PM »
.......Equanimeous St. Brown with 2 nice snags from Tim Boyle.

Perfect!  A favorable ESB reference, nice!  Just what I've been asking for! 

Offline LMG

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Re: Preseason 2019 Game 1
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2019, 03:52:37 PM »
Maybe Claymaker could start a thread on Preseason 2019 Game 2 vs Baltimore?


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