February 16, 2019, 05:37:59 PM

Author Topic: Cole  (Read 523 times)

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Offline mancl

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Cole
« on: February 11, 2019, 07:01:31 AM »
://theathletic.com/804779/2019/02/11/sources-tragic-death-of-former-teammate-keeps-cole-madison-away-from-packers/

Hopefully this will end the endless questions about his future.  Let's move on!

Offline RT

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Re: Cole
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 07:50:47 AM »
://theathletic.com/804779/2019/02/11/sources-tragic-death-of-former-teammate-keeps-cole-madison-away-from-packers/

Hopefully this will end the endless questions about his future.  Let's move on!

Maybe you are Michael Cohen and that is why you post a link to an article behind a paywall, but I'm guessing that the number of people here who can access it are 1 or 2 at the most.

Online The GM

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Re: Cole
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 10:26:07 AM »
://theathletic.com/804779/2019/02/11/sources-tragic-death-of-former-teammate-keeps-cole-madison-away-from-packers/

Hopefully this will end the endless questions about his future.  Let's move on!

I brought this info to PC 5 months ago,  nothing new here,  but how he decides to handle it is clearly up to him.  I think the Packers have handled this about as well as they could have.   The focus is on his own health as it should be and I wish him well.     

Offline craig

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Re: Cole
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 11:59:23 AM »
Thanks, manci, that was a good article and helpful, for me at any rate.  It clearly reflects some more recent efforts to get input.  And while Madison isn't talking, it helps to explain some of the questions I'd had.  To my mind, the link with his friend's suicide had been speculated, but a kid can have other things come up.  And while many college students are really troubled by a friend's suicide, it's also true that most students that age have their own lives and hopes to consider, and tend to move on with their own lives and priorities. 

Cohen claimed to have talked to four sources/friends, who seemed to confirm that Madison's walk-away WAS directly related to the friend's suicide.  That's more than just internet posts speculating/assuming as much. 

Cohen's account also seems to explain the primary hesitation I'd had with buying the "suicide" rationalization.  The suicide happened in January, the draft was 3 months later, mini camp 4-months later.  So *IF* it was all about the suicide, then why was he excited to get drafted in April, and cheerful and engaged in May and June?  Cohen notes that the post-mortem connection between the suicide and CTE didn't come out until June, and that's when Madison changed his mind about stuff. 

That seems plausible and explanatory. 

I think that would also perhaps take the Packers scouting personnel off the hook, too.  I had wondered why, if a guy was so upset about a friend's suicide that occurred in January, upset enough to quit the game and retire, I'd wondered why the Packers scouts hadn't talked enough to the kid to pick up some red-flags regarding his emotional state and his commitment to the game?  Or if the "personal matters" were unrelated to the suicide and were instead drugs or mental illness or something, why hadn't they picked up on that prior to draft?  But *IF* everything was fine with Madison until the CTE report in late June, then the scouts aren't at fault for missing something that wasn't a thing prior to the draft. 

For the Packers sake, it's really a shame to lose a draft pick like that, particularly at a position of weakness (in my view) that could really use a draft pick that worked out.  As a fan, I hope he changes his mind.  Objectively, though, I can't fault him at all for either wanting to become a CTE victim, or to be a guy whose bashing other guys around might be the cause of them having their brains damaged. 

Online The GM

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Re: Cole
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 12:49:34 PM »
Thanks, manci, that was a good article and helpful, for me at any rate.  It clearly reflects some more recent efforts to get input.  And while Madison isn't talking, it helps to explain some of the questions I'd had.  To my mind, the link with his friend's suicide had been speculated, but a kid can have other things come up.  And while many college students are really troubled by a friend's suicide, it's also true that most students that age have their own lives and hopes to consider, and tend to move on with their own lives and priorities. 

Cohen claimed to have talked to four sources/friends, who seemed to confirm that Madison's walk-away WAS directly related to the friend's suicide.  That's more than just internet posts speculating/assuming as much. 

Cohen's account also seems to explain the primary hesitation I'd had with buying the "suicide" rationalization.  The suicide happened in January, the draft was 3 months later, mini camp 4-months later.  So *IF* it was all about the suicide, then why was he excited to get drafted in April, and cheerful and engaged in May and June?  Cohen notes that the post-mortem connection between the suicide and CTE didn't come out until June, and that's when Madison changed his mind about stuff. 

That seems plausible and explanatory. 

I think that would also perhaps take the Packers scouting personnel off the hook, too.  I had wondered why, if a guy was so upset about a friend's suicide that occurred in January, upset enough to quit the game and retire, I'd wondered why the Packers scouts hadn't talked enough to the kid to pick up some red-flags regarding his emotional state and his commitment to the game?  Or if the "personal matters" were unrelated to the suicide and were instead drugs or mental illness or something, why hadn't they picked up on that prior to draft?  But *IF* everything was fine with Madison until the CTE report in late June, then the scouts aren't at fault for missing something that wasn't a thing prior to the draft. 

For the Packers sake, it's really a shame to lose a draft pick like that, particularly at a position of weakness (in my view) that could really use a draft pick that worked out.  As a fan, I hope he changes his mind.  Objectively, though, I can't fault him at all for either wanting to become a CTE victim, or to be a guy whose bashing other guys around might be the cause of them having their brains damaged.

Unless there was something in his medical records, it likely could have been tough to pick up IMO.  Perhaps it will cause a heavier focus in this area for the Packers.  Some get upset at some of the questions that get reported about their family life ect.  Those things can all be part of a persons personality, drive and makeup.  JMO.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 01:02:16 PM by The GM »

Offline RT

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Re: Cole
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 01:02:15 PM »
What are you referring to when you say 'it likely would have been tough to pick up? What medical records?

Offline mancl

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Re: Cole
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 01:51:58 PM »
You are right RT.  I was in a hurry- should have referenced the article or make reference to it as other sites did.

Offline RT

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Re: Cole
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 02:43:16 PM »
You are right RT.  I was in a hurry- should have referenced the article or make reference to it as other sites did.

It's all good mancl. I'm now just curious to know what the heck GM is talking about with his medical records.

Online ricky

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Re: Cole
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2019, 03:01:32 PM »
You are right RT.  I was in a hurry- should have referenced the article or make reference to it as other sites did.

It's all good mancl. I'm now just curious to know what the heck GM is talking about with his medical records.

Make that two of us. If you could paraphrase the article, not quote exactly, that should be acceptable. A scan showed CTE? If so, that would put him in the same category as the Wisconsin LBer who quit after a year for the same reason. But generally those records are private- unless you're Jason Pierre-Paul, whose records were aired when Adam Schefter got hold of them. Eventually, ESPN and JPP settled the issue out of court.

OK, read this at CheeseheadTV. It was his friend who committed suicide that had stage one CTE, not Madison. The Packers have been very understanding and supportive of this guy, and for that, I salute them.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-offer-full-support-for-cole-madison-whose-football-future-is-unclear-138
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 03:18:27 PM by ricky »
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Online The GM

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Re: Cole
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2019, 04:27:30 PM »
You are right RT.  I was in a hurry- should have referenced the article or make reference to it as other sites did.

It's all good mancl. I'm now just curious to know what the heck GM is talking about with his medical records.

Make that two of us. If you could paraphrase the article, not quote exactly, that should be acceptable. A scan showed CTE? If so, that would put him in the same category as the Wisconsin LBer who quit after a year for the same reason. But generally those records are private- unless you're Jason Pierre-Paul, whose records were aired when Adam Schefter got hold of them. Eventually, ESPN and JPP settled the issue out of court.

OK, read this at CheeseheadTV. It was his friend who committed suicide that had stage one CTE, not Madison. The Packers have been very understanding and supportive of this guy, and for that, I salute them.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-offer-full-support-for-cole-madison-whose-football-future-is-unclear-138

A few years ago, players were asked to bring their medical records with them to the Combine, so medical staffs could look into previous injuries.   A player could have numerous concussions in college or other injuries and the NFL medical staffs would have no idea they occured.    Sometimes the NFL staff would remind them of injuries they had several seasons ago they just plain forgot about (sprained ankles, hamstrings).  Today, its much different.  The legal beagles are involved.  Disability Acts forbid the use of a persons medical records as a condition of employment.   The NFL and its combine aren't technically allowed to ask for their records and Im not sure if a  player is even allowed to voluntarily give their records to them (NFLPA may have something against it?)   Does it happen?  No idea.  It is my understanding a employment offer must be made before a request can be made by the team for the players medical records.  If you are making an offer, the player has already already drafted, so whats the point of screening a player you've already drafted.   It might be helpful down the road as his career progresses?

As far as Cole Madison is concerned and many players .   This is the opportunity of a lifetime.  Detecting a guy is depressed (If that's what it is?) or having mental health issues is a little different than checking his spine or doing a MRI on his knee.    Really the only way you may find out is if he tells you,  and I'm not sure in the cattle call environment of the combine, and the opportunity for these players to want to impress the NFL teams you'll get straight answers.  I'm not sure a mental health issue a player might want to hide is even going to come out in the short time they have to interview.    Look, I'm no expert on this,  but unless the player tells you, I think detecting something like that could be pretty difficult in that combine environment.   The player is looking to impress teams to play in the NFL, finding a torn rotator cuff is one thing,  a mental health issue like depression is a little tougher. It doesn't mean it cant be found but its tougher in the short time the medical staffs get with each player and the 321 players lined up behind them.  JMO

Id love to hear any inputs on this,  Im open to your impressions and suggestions.     
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 04:48:16 PM by The GM »

Offline RT

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Re: Cole
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 04:48:42 PM »
You are right RT.  I was in a hurry- should have referenced the article or make reference to it as other sites did.

It's all good mancl. I'm now just curious to know what the heck GM is talking about with his medical records.

Make that two of us. If you could paraphrase the article, not quote exactly, that should be acceptable. A scan showed CTE? If so, that would put him in the same category as the Wisconsin LBer who quit after a year for the same reason. But generally those records are private- unless you're Jason Pierre-Paul, whose records were aired when Adam Schefter got hold of them. Eventually, ESPN and JPP settled the issue out of court.

OK, read this at CheeseheadTV. It was his friend who committed suicide that had stage one CTE, not Madison. The Packers have been very understanding and supportive of this guy, and for that, I salute them.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-offer-full-support-for-cole-madison-whose-football-future-is-unclear-138

Just an FYI here, CTE can only be diagnosed after death.

https://healthblog.uofmhealth.org/brain-health/diagnosing-cte-in-living-patients