May 26, 2019, 06:34:35 AM

Author Topic: What's changed?  (Read 1619 times)

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Offline marklawrence

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What's changed?
« on: March 14, 2019, 09:30:17 PM »
 Well, we have four new shiny toys, and we're going to be very happy. Cause new toys.

Here's some questions:

Will they fit our scheme?

Well they bond with our other players and coach's?

Will they remained motivated after getting a nice payday, and that from people they don't really know?

Well they stay healthy? (This one I'm confident the answer is "not all four of them.")

Here's what has changed: expectations. We're going to the Superbowl. Done deal. Cause Aaron will look like the Aaron of four years ago, we're gonna draft better than anyone, and shiny new toys.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” -- John F. Kennedy.

Offline Shinesman

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 09:37:22 PM »
What has changed is the willingness to infuse the roster with solid proven talent. This will free up the draft strategy and allow us to stop trying to reach, or even worse, grab square pegs for round holes. The guys signed have been solid, are still young, have stayed pretty healthy, do everything well, and have now given us a defense that just lacks a true middle linebacker, and one safety. This is a large step forward before the draft even hit. If White drops to us at 12 and Adderly or one of the other top safeties is there at #30, watch out. It will be the most complete defense since the Woodson era in green bay.
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Offline The GM

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 10:21:18 PM »
What has changed is there is a optimistic view among the organization and fans.  Thats great, but they still have to go out and perform.  I think we got better but time will tell.

Offline craig

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2019, 10:26:02 AM »
What's changed?
1.  We've drafted so ineffectively recently that we didn't have enough internal D+D guys to be worth spending our cap $$ on.  Thus the need to go and burn it on outside guys.  That doesn't reflect organizational progress. 
2.  Compared to a week ago, we've added four guys each of whom is likely to start, and to be better than the four guys we'd have needed to be using as starters on last week's roster.  So 4/22 of the starting lineup has gotten better, that's good.  Compared to the good old days, though, the fact that D+D had left four starting positions (and more) desperately underqualified doesn't reflect organization progress. 
3.  Our OLB and safety group hasn't been good for some while.  I'm not sure how good any of the three new guys will be; but I think it's a strong shift in the positive direction.  Whether it's just an anti-awful shift, going from bad to average; or shift far enough to be in the above-average side, time will tell. 

What hasn't changed:  As has been relatively consistent since Rodgers emerged as a young star, resources have been relentlessly allocated to improving the defense.  They signed a backup o-lineman, but otherwise no additions to an offense that hasn't been great in a while. 

Hopefully the new guys do really well; the team is unusually healthy; the draft adds some offensive talent; some of the young guys develop; and most importantly that Rodgers rebounds and becomes really effective and accurate. 

Offline ricky

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 12:34:28 PM »
Well, we have four new shiny toys, and we're going to be very happy. Cause new toys.

Here's some questions:

Will they fit our scheme?

Hopefully, Pettine knows what type of player he needs to make his scheme work. So, these were he guys that were targetted. So, do we trust that Pettine knows what he is doing? If not, then it won't matter who is on the field.

Well they bond with our other players and coach's?

Is there any indication this would be a problem? Guys change teams on a regular basis. Its part of the business. So, they should do fine in the locker room. Being in Green Bay is another mattr. Small, white city for black young men is always an adjustment. And if the coaches know what they're doing, they should earn the respect of the new guys.

Will they remained motivated after getting a nice payday, and that from people they don't really know?

They are on their second contracts, and hopefully still young and hungry. If they want to really break the bank on their third contract, they'll have to do their best. Might there be a problem? Sure. Likely? Probably not.

Well they stay healthy? (This one I'm confident the answer is "not all four of them.")

All four have shown durability so far. And the Packers have Chris Gizzi as their new conditioning coach. But realistically, who knows? Because it seems the Packers have a bad habit of having a full roster on IR.

Here's what has changed: expectations. We're going to the Superbowl. Done deal. Cause Aaron will look like the Aaron of four years ago, we're gonna draft better than anyone, and shiny new toys.

Well, yeah. Finally adding soome players through FA, and at positions of need, does give the Packers more flexibilty in the draft. And, yes, this does make fans feel better. Is this optimimism justified? You are absolutely right about AR- if he can be reined in, and get back to getting rid of the ball quickly and efficiently, then indeed, this could transform the offense. And if MLF indeed does commit to the run. And if the team stays relatively healthy. Then, sure, the SB is a possibility. Or maybe even a probability. What also seems obvious is that the Packers are going into "all in mode" to try to maximize their chances of being in the SB.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline #66

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2019, 10:21:41 AM »
I would argue that the roster is also now much more versatile.  Every player signed is able to do more than one thing on the field.  ZS can rush from the edge, the interior, and set the edge.  PS can rush from the edge, set the edge, and drop. Amos can play deep or as an overhang defender.  Billy Turner can play multiple spots on the OL.  In today's game this is critical for both scheme and position depth.
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Offline craig

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 08:57:13 PM »
That's a really good point, 66, I hadn't thought about that at all.  Helpful. 

Offline PackerJoe

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 06:46:03 AM »
I think that this defense we had was weak at best and has been for years.  DB's decline, poor drafts, injuries, lackluster performance, aging, etc. too it's toll.  So easiest way to fix it is to invest in some folks at key positions where we are weak.  Pass rush, haven't had any in three to four years.  When an average qb can throw for 350 yds plus against a defense, that is telling you something and TT and MccArthy didn't listen.
So we got two rushers into the fold now.  Hey they makes even better sense, one for each side, who would've have thought that??  This also allow us a little more flexibility with the upcoming draft, which also is loaded with young talented pass rushers.  What we aren't done on Defense, absolutely not.  Initially I as thinking drafting at least two great pass rushers coming out.  I was thinking 2 of our top 3 picks whould be edge/de type players.   With the FA signings, I'm now thinking 1 edge rusher, 1 MLB and one OL with our first three picks.  I wouldn't be drafting any offensive weapons (WR, RB, TE) til after rd 3.  This defense needs speed and talent.  Alot of talk about the Iowa TE's.  Te's typically don't do well in year 1.  Not opposed to it, we'll have to see how things pan out.  If Ferrell, White, Sweat are gone at 12, I'm moving back and getting some picks in rds 2-3-4, depending how far back we move.  I have openly stated on this and other boards that my 104 yr old deceased grandmother in her grave played better than our current LB roster.  That is a high need area.  Our LBS rarely make a play in the backfield, haven't had any fumble recoveries, intercepted or batted down passes, have zilch for coverage skills and are slower than molasses.  We need to draft at least two, maybe three!

I think the signings bring talent and depth to positions in need.  It allows us greater flexibility in the draft.  I'm excited about Alexander and Clark on Defense.  Maybe Adams can make a step forward on DL. Daniels is starting to slip performance wise and age wise. Would like to see Wilkerson brought back.  We are a better team because of better talent on defense and  finally getting rid of deadwood (Perry, for example).   Draft should benefit us more, if we draft the right folks at the right positions!!   

Online packlaw

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 02:03:37 PM »
I agree PJ joe, the defense still needs to head the draft.  I disagree as to tight ends.  Get one of the Iowa tight ends now and they have a year to develop as Graham is still on the team.  We need a top flight ILB and I think either Devin White or Bush should be taken in Round 1 with a tight end.  In round two we take the best Safety...round 3 we take the best slot receiver available. We have two picks in the 4th and 6th, where we can get OL, Cb and other needs.  I would like to trade down from 12, still get the above and get an additional 3rd.  I don't think what is left in FA is going to solve or mitigate any of our shortfalls. The packers staff knows how to work the cap....





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Offline footballdad

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 02:03:36 AM »
packlaw - I agree with the iowa tight ends - Hockenson in particular - and White or Bush, if they are the best player on the board. But saying " we will address this position in this round" is drafting for need. That is exactly what caused a roster that is in part devoid of talent.
If, when the pick comes up and you say to yourself " I'm going to take an edge rusher here" that's great IF he is the best player available. If there are ten better football players there, it is kind of stupid to take the eleventh best.
The object is to have your 11 be better than the 11 facing you on the field. How is this accomplished by not selecting the best player? The only exception should be if you have a position where you have a pro bowl caliber player and your draft pick would just sit, and sit some more. That is when you look to move back however many slots to where you may have a group of equally rated guys and would be happy with any one of them.
If a draft pick comes in and becomes a starter over someone who has been solid, you're unit just got better. Every team has needs, the top teams take BPA.



Online packlaw

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 04:41:14 AM »
I agree with your premise in the later rounds.  In the first round, these guys are the best players in their position. I agree not necessarily best available; but the best players we need and can get in the entire draft.  There is nothing better than filling a specific need with the best player in that position in the draft.

Offline Scott1956

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What's left to do?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 10:44:18 PM »
The Packers have done very well in free agency. 2 pass rushing LB'S. A desperately needed Safety. And a Guard/Tackle. They still need another Tackle, Bulaga may still be on the team but watching him last year was painful. If he's willing to rework his contract, he could be valuable as a backup. They need a slot WR. The WR from Ohio State would look great there. But someone with real quickness. A Donald Driver type. I believe they need an outside WR. I waiver on this quite a bit. I think they have real talent at WR, but it wasn't working real well last year. Not it's a year later. Hopefully they make that big jump. Another actual Safety, not a CB that HAS to play Safety. Last but not least a TE. If they can get 4 more good players, they can make a real run at the playoffs. With 2 first round picks, a high second they should be able to meet at least 2 of their needs. The draft will be fun to watch. But the cuts afterword, may be interesting.

Offline #66

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Re: What's changed?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2019, 04:20:47 PM »
I think that this defense we had was weak at best and has been for years.  DB's decline, poor drafts, injuries, lackluster performance, aging, etc. too it's toll.  So easiest way to fix it is to invest in some folks at key positions where we are weak.  Pass rush, haven't had any in three to four years.  When an average qb can throw for 350 yds plus against a defense, that is telling you something and TT and MccArthy didn't listen.
So we got two rushers into the fold now.  Hey they makes even better sense, one for each side, who would've have thought that??  This also allow us a little more flexibility with the upcoming draft, which also is loaded with young talented pass rushers.  What we aren't done on Defense, absolutely not.  Initially I as thinking drafting at least two great pass rushers coming out.  I was thinking 2 of our top 3 picks whould be edge/de type players.   With the FA signings, I'm now thinking 1 edge rusher, 1 MLB and one OL with our first three picks.  I wouldn't be drafting any offensive weapons (WR, RB, TE) til after rd 3.  This defense needs speed and talent.  Alot of talk about the Iowa TE's.  Te's typically don't do well in year 1.  Not opposed to it, we'll have to see how things pan out.  If Ferrell, White, Sweat are gone at 12, I'm moving back and getting some picks in rds 2-3-4, depending how far back we move.  I have openly stated on this and other boards that my 104 yr old deceased grandmother in her grave played better than our current LB roster.  That is a high need area.  Our LBS rarely make a play in the backfield, haven't had any fumble recoveries, intercepted or batted down passes, have zilch for coverage skills and are slower than molasses.  We need to draft at least two, maybe three!

I think the signings bring talent and depth to positions in need.  It allows us greater flexibility in the draft.  I'm excited about Alexander and Clark on Defense.  Maybe Adams can make a step forward on DL. Daniels is starting to slip performance wise and age wise. Would like to see Wilkerson brought back.  We are a better team because of better talent on defense and  finally getting rid of deadwood (Perry, for example).   Draft should benefit us more, if we draft the right folks at the right positions!!   
Oliver needs to be added to your list and even more so when you mention that you think Daniels is slipping. 

These signings did not just bring versatility to the field - it also brought versatility to the draft.  I am very wary of pegging certain positions in certain rounds as some posters have done.  As some have said, this team needs talent across the board.  The versatility that these signings bring on the field means that Gute does not need to lock in on a pick or position as much as he had to before.

Furthermore,  as far as TE, I think that the facts that Lewis and Graham are both aging, TEs take time to develop, Tonyan is an unknown, and that this draft is deep at TE all point towards a high probability of a TE being drafted AND support that logic.

As far as ILB, I believe everyone here would agree that marked improvement is a must.  I also believe that there will be an ILB taken and I would very much like to see a stud.  Pettine's defense has historically featured a "chase" LB with sideline to sideline speed.  Frequently he lines up at the WILL linebacker position.  The question that I pose: is can Josh Jones play this position?  He has great speed for the position.  His instincts as a player are better near the ball.  Conversely, his instincts are not suited to play deep safety. 

I believe that Pettine will be deploying Jones much more as an overhang defender/chase linebacker in this defense IF Jones displays the ability to learn the defense.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi