June 25, 2019, 10:41:39 PM

Author Topic: Hypothetical GM  (Read 2257 times)

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Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Hypothetical GM
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2019, 05:07:36 AM »
For those advocating Lawrence at 12 - just wondering how you see his fit with Clark vs other DL options?  I like Lawrence as a player but I’m struggling to see his fit.  I’m all for a trench player, OL or DL at 12...or even 30,  and open to being convinced he’s an attractive option

Do you think he could play as a 5 tech or NT only?  I only see him as a NT and only a 2 down player at that. Would you push Clark out to an end position—- knowing Clark is an All-Pro caliber NT and we’ll have him under contract for at least this season and next.    Would he be as effective in another spot or do you envision a rotation with Lawrence playing early downs?

I'd be looking for someone who is more of a penetrator-type DL than a NT type. Big run-stuffing NTs can be found later. Now when you start talking Christian Wilkins in the mid 20's picks, or being patient for Jeffery Simmons to get healthy at #30, or even Rashan Gary, who is a bit of a tweener between DL and Edge, then you are adding to the pass rush more than with Lawrence. As a later pick (#44) I'd also consider Jerry Tillery as someone with decent pass rush capability. The light has switched on more for him, later in his college career. As a 4th round option, Daylon Mack is a guy who explodes out of his stance and has been getting better over time.

I also have reservations about players that are much bigger than 320lb. Once you get into the 330-350 range (Lawrence listed at 340) that weight tends to ruin your knee cartilage rather quickly. The problem of offseason ballooning weight is also a bigger problem, and really big players often do less well in the NFL (than college) where scheme, experience, technique, and strength can neutralise huge size for a while, at least until the huge guy gets gassed. That isn't so noticeable with a NT that isn't penetrating much anyway, but it is still a factor. If I felt I needed a 2 down run stopper (and I'd need to be convinced the Packers want that kind of guy) I'd be more invested in guys like Greg Gaines and Khalen Saunders, rather later in the draft.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 05:09:44 AM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline The GM

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Re: Hypothetical GM
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2019, 06:26:08 AM »
For those advocating Lawrence at 12 - just wondering how you see his fit with Clark vs other DL options?  I like Lawrence as a player but I’m struggling to see his fit.  I’m all for a trench player, OL or DL at 12...or even 30,  and open to being convinced he’s an attractive option

Do you think he could play as a 5 tech or NT only?  I only see him as a NT and only a 2 down player at that. Would you push Clark out to an end position—- knowing Clark is an All-Pro caliber NT and we’ll have him under contract for at least this season and next.    Would he be as effective in another spot or do you envision a rotation with Lawrence playing early downs?

I'd be looking for someone who is more of a penetrator-type DL than a NT type. Big run-stuffing NTs can be found later. Now when you start talking Christian Wilkins in the mid 20's picks, or being patient for Jeffery Simmons to get healthy at #30, or even Rashan Gary, who is a bit of a tweener between DL and Edge, then you are adding to the pass rush more than with Lawrence. As a later pick (#44) I'd also consider Jerry Tillery as someone with decent pass rush capability. The light has switched on more for him, later in his college career. As a 4th round option, Daylon Mack is a guy who explodes out of his stance and has been getting better over time.

I also have reservations about players that are much bigger than 320lb. Once you get into the 330-350 range (Lawrence listed at 340) that weight tends to ruin your knee cartilage rather quickly. The problem of offseason ballooning weight is also a bigger problem, and really big players often do less well in the NFL (than college) where scheme, experience, technique, and strength can neutralise huge size for a while, at least until the huge guy gets gassed. That isn't so noticeable with a NT that isn't penetrating much anyway, but it is still a factor. If I felt I needed a 2 down run stopper (and I'd need to be convinced the Packers want that kind of guy) I'd be more invested in guys like Greg Gaines and Khalen Saunders, rather later in the draft.

I like Gaines, watched him many times over the years.  Hes a blue collar, brings his lunch to work kind of player. He wont be a star but after getting some experience he'll be a starter/solid player for someone.

Offline bmaafi

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Re: Hypothetical GM
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2019, 07:21:29 AM »
For those advocating Lawrence at 12 - just wondering how you see his fit with Clark vs other DL options?  I like Lawrence as a player but I’m struggling to see his fit.  I’m all for a trench player, OL or DL at 12...or even 30,  and open to being convinced he’s an attractive option

Do you think he could play as a 5 tech or NT only?  I only see him as a NT and only a 2 down player at that. Would you push Clark out to an end position—- knowing Clark is an All-Pro caliber NT and we’ll have him under contract for at least this season and next.    Would he be as effective in another spot or do you envision a rotation with Lawrence playing early downs?

I'd be looking for someone who is more of a penetrator-type DL than a NT type. Big run-stuffing NTs can be found later. Now when you start talking Christian Wilkins in the mid 20's picks, or being patient for Jeffery Simmons to get healthy at #30, or even Rashan Gary, who is a bit of a tweener between DL and Edge, then you are adding to the pass rush more than with Lawrence. As a later pick (#44) I'd also consider Jerry Tillery as someone with decent pass rush capability. The light has switched on more for him, later in his college career. As a 4th round option, Daylon Mack is a guy who explodes out of his stance and has been getting better over time.


I'd also add that the packers are pretty set at NT with Clark and Lancaster.

Offline RT

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Re: Hypothetical GM
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2019, 07:23:45 AM »
For those advocating Lawrence at 12 - just wondering how you see his fit with Clark vs other DL options?  I like Lawrence as a player but I’m struggling to see his fit.  I’m all for a trench player, OL or DL at 12...or even 30,  and open to being convinced he’s an attractive option

Do you think he could play as a 5 tech or NT only?  I only see him as a NT and only a 2 down player at that. Would you push Clark out to an end position—- knowing Clark is an All-Pro caliber NT and we’ll have him under contract for at least this season and next.    Would he be as effective in another spot or do you envision a rotation with Lawrence playing early downs?

I'd be looking for someone who is more of a penetrator-type DL than a NT type. Big run-stuffing NTs can be found later. Now when you start talking Christian Wilkins in the mid 20's picks, or being patient for Jeffery Simmons to get healthy at #30, or even Rashan Gary, who is a bit of a tweener between DL and Edge, then you are adding to the pass rush more than with Lawrence. As a later pick (#44) I'd also consider Jerry Tillery as someone with decent pass rush capability. The light has switched on more for him, later in his college career. As a 4th round option, Daylon Mack is a guy who explodes out of his stance and has been getting better over time.

I also have reservations about players that are much bigger than 320lb. Once you get into the 330-350 range (Lawrence listed at 340) that weight tends to ruin your knee cartilage rather quickly. The problem of offseason ballooning weight is also a bigger problem, and really big players often do less well in the NFL (than college) where scheme, experience, technique, and strength can neutralise huge size for a while, at least until the huge guy gets gassed. That isn't so noticeable with a NT that isn't penetrating much anyway, but it is still a factor. If I felt I needed a 2 down run stopper (and I'd need to be convinced the Packers want that kind of guy) I'd be more invested in guys like Greg Gaines and Khalen Saunders, rather later in the draft.

That is a very good breakdown, well done. The only thing I would differ on is that Saunders is going to get drafted for his potential to rush the passer and not as a run defender.

A few years ago a number of national mocks had a NT from TCU going to the Packers in the 1st round and Bill Polian who was doing draft coverage at the time just rolled this eyes when someone suggested that. He said you don't draft guys to stop the run in the first round, those guys can be gotten late in the draft. The NT was drafted in the 4th round by Cincinnati.

The Packers signed Tyler Lancaster as a UDFA last year and he might be a better run defender than any of the DL that people are pushing here.