June 24, 2019, 03:49:40 AM

Author Topic: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall  (Read 3805 times)

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Offline ricky

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2019, 11:04:23 AM »
More from bleacher report,

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2829594-aaron-rodgers-likely-to-force-packers-matt-lafleur-into-role-no-coach-wants

Exactly. Rodgers is the franchise, and he knows it. Unless the Packers seriously consider trading him to a team like the Jets for Darnold and some sort of compensation, he is indeed a loose cannon. However, I wrote this yesterday at CheeseheadTV regarding Dunne's article:


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ricky says:
April 04, 2019 at 04:28 pm(edit)
No one thought Favre could be brought back under control. McCarthy managed to do it. At the time, MM was 42; Favre, was six years younger. So, MLF can't handle Rodgers? We'll see. It will be difficult, because if he does decide to call audibles, what will the coach do? Bench him?


So, this is the crux of the problem. The answer? Either Rodgers plays within the system, or the team ships him out for whatever they can get for him. If the team is not willing to do this, then the problem will persist. Ultimately, is this a team, or a player and an organization that supports that player?
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline RT

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2019, 11:24:15 AM »
To get rid of Rodgers now would have 78,900,000.00 in dead money. The Packers are currently 13,144,793.00 under the cap. All the amateur capologist can save their time in claiming how they could do it by cutting players X,Y and Z. The Packers empowered Rodgers with his contract and they are stuck in this situation for at least 2 more seasons.   

Offline claymaker

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2019, 12:11:14 PM »
I feel like people are finally off the Aaron Rodgers bandwagon and now feel safe to throw shade at the golden boy.

I don't buy 90% of the things being said out there. A lot of it just seems like a collection of pent up resentment from people associated with Rodgers and McCarthy. The article points out a few poorly kept secrets and disingenuously keeps a doom and gloom atmosphere throughout.

Offline Fargofootball

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2019, 12:40:10 PM »
I know you didn't mean it that way RT, but STUCK with Aaron Rodgers? Really? Stick me in that ditch every week....

Offline Fargofootball

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2019, 12:43:23 PM »
Bandwagon not empty yet......

Offline The GM

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2019, 01:38:43 PM »
More from bleacher report,

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2829594-aaron-rodgers-likely-to-force-packers-matt-lafleur-into-role-no-coach-wants

Exactly. Rodgers is the franchise, and he knows it. Unless the Packers seriously consider trading him to a team like the Jets for Darnold and some sort of compensation, he is indeed a loose cannon. However, I wrote this yesterday at CheeseheadTV regarding Dunne's article:


ricky's picture
ricky says:
April 04, 2019 at 04:28 pm(edit)
No one thought Favre could be brought back under control. McCarthy managed to do it. At the time, MM was 42; Favre, was six years younger. So, MLF can't handle Rodgers? We'll see. It will be difficult, because if he does decide to call audibles, what will the coach do? Bench him?



You need to give Rodgers the freedom to call audibles at any time.    I think a new scheme and some different formations will allow Rodgers to be more successful and buy into the offense.   I think Rodgers and LaFleur will work problems out, and LaFleur will get input from Rodgers.   These guys will work together to be successful.  The problems between Rodgers and McCarthy are gone IMO, and LaFleur's new approach will be a breath of fresh air for Rodgers,  I'm not even remotely worried about it.  I think these guys are going to combine to make this work.  Through communication, I believe they will both be on the same page.       

Offline #66

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2019, 03:58:17 PM »
I waited over a day to post on this one...

Yeah, there is definitely a bunch in here that I think a lot of us could somewhat diagnose from the outside.  Right now, however, I have one prevailing question.  WHO WAS THE SOURCE FOR THE TELEPHONE CALL BETWEEN AR AND MURPHY?  I would really like to know the answer to that as it would explain where some of the more scandalous parts of this article came from...
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi

Offline ricky

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2019, 04:10:44 PM »
You need to give Rodgers the freedom to call audibles at any time.    I think a new scheme and some different formations will allow Rodgers to be more successful and buy into the offense.   I think Rodgers and LaFleur will work problems out, and LaFleur will get input from Rodgers.   These guys will work together to be successful.  The problems between Rodgers and McCarthy are gone IMO, and LaFleur's new approach will be a breath of fresh air for Rodgers,  I'm not even remotely worried about it.  I think these guys are going to combine to make this work.  Through communication, I believe they will both be on the same page.       

Remember the old days, when QB's called their own plays with input from the HC and OC? Yes, Rodgers needs the ability to audible; however, he also needs to be more aware of getting short gains that move the chains, rather than constantly looking for that big "chunk play". If he always believes he knows better, then the best play will almost always be a pass. Since MLF, from his history, will seemingly want to emphasize the run, this could be a problem. So, the original question remains: will Rodgers trust MLF to upgrade the offense, and make it more relevant to the "new NFL"? Or will he continue to do whatever he thinks is best?

Just read this at PFT: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/05/source-packers-dispute-characterization-of-murphy-rodgers-call/

In brief, a source in the Packers organization is disputing Dunne's characterization of the phone call between Murphy and Rodgers. Well, unless it was a conference call, the source disputing this has to be either Murphy or Rodgers, or someone within the organization being told to dispute the tenor of the call. My guess? Murphy or a representative of the Packers speaking on Murphy's behalf.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 04:19:02 PM by ricky »
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Offline The GM

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2019, 04:56:21 PM »
Rodgers knows the extent of the phone call, he was on it.  If the report is BS, Rodgers knows it.  If Murphy did say it, Murphy recognizes it takes 2 to tango, and McCarthy is gone.  There were problems between MM and Rodgers.   Murphy ended it and basically told Rodgers to play nice.  .  I think this is making mountain out of mole hill and Rodgers will be ready to start digesting this new offense. JMO
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 05:37:09 PM by The GM »

Offline craig

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2019, 05:16:54 PM »
To get rid of Rodgers now would have 78,900,000.00 in dead money. ....  The Packers empowered Rodgers with his contract and they are stuck in this situation for at least 2 more seasons.

Yes, Rodgers isn't going anywhere for a few years.  Whether the Packers struggle or thrive, it will be with Rodgers. 

There are some puzzles for me.  1st, Murphy and the Packers admin have been around for a long time.  When the Packers gave Rodgers the big mega-bucks extension, well before his existing contract was done, were they clueless about the personal dynamics?  I'd assume not; yet they went ahead and committed themselves to multiple more years with the man.  It seems possible that they know the clubhouse stuff, and don't think that Rodgers is nearly so problematic as the construction of the article and the voices in the article suggest. 

2nd, articles always talk as if Rodgers is so smart, so very intelligent, so hyper-prideful, so hyper-sensitive, and so competitive.  Yet the criticism is that he holds on way too long, and that he won't use his weapons, be those running backs or young receivers.  I'm not sure how that all adds up.  If he's so intelligent and so competitive, and *IF* holding the ball overly long and not utilizing young receivers and backs is killing the offense, that doesn't add up.  Either he isn't very smart or intelligent at all, and is constantly making terrible decisions; or maybe he isn't actually that competitive and doesn't care about winning?  Or what?  If what he's doing is contrary to both team and personal achievement, then how is that remotely smart and intelligent?  Either his reputation for being so intelligent and competitive is ill-founded, or perhaps the view that he's holding it too long and not taking what the defense gives him etc. is ill-founded?   

If he's so sensitive, and smart, why keep going back to things that he is endlessly criticized for?  Pure stubbornness, to prove the critics wrong? 

One possible argument in the other direction is the hypothesis that MM called a lot of low-chance-to-succeed plays, running plays especially, and defensive sets made it evident that they would fail.  It may be that many of the calls that Rodgers checked out of, it may have been for good reason?  Maybe the Packers running stats look as good as they do because Rodgers kept them out of a bunch of running plays that would have been into-the-teeth for no gain? 

Offline craig

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2019, 05:29:05 PM »
The spin has been that MLF is walking into a terrible situation.  Perhaps so.  But I'm going to hypothesize the opposite. 

From the account, it was a really toxic situation, with no team unity.  Players distrust and feel distant from the MM and disrespect him.  Players think they know their positions better than position coaches.  One key player, the QB, thinks play selection is stupid. Defense feels completely distant from the offense.  Defense feels disrespected by the coaches.  Etc. etc..  If that's the general feel, I can totally see how players would prefer a different feel. 

So, in comes a new guy.  He's sincere, he's honest, he's hard working, he's smart.  He's very conscious of trying to built a team spirit, and assuming he smart, perhaps he can recognize good coaches and straight-shooting coaches who care about their guys and will be understood to be pushing guys to play as well as they can.  Perhaps he'll have a much more offense-and-defense-together culture, more than one day of going bowling or skeet-shooting or whatever.  Any maybe while he comes across as Mr Nice-Guy, in fact he's a pretty straight-shooting guy who runs hard, physical practices and who guys quickly come to respect, both in terms of his intentions but in terms of his decisions as well. 

Given perhaps a very low previous bar for previous team-together mindset, and a low bar for assistant coaches, and a low bar for smarts, perhaps MLF and the new coaching group and the new ideas will seem so much better and smarter?  And everybody will be all positive, positive, positive, I appreciate the new landscape so much, the play-calling is so much better and more creative, the coaches are using me more smartly, we're so much tougher than before, etc..  It could be that everybody is so ready for new leadership and new team culture that they'll love MLF and buy in very quickly and easily and it will turn out great. 

And perhaps if there aren't so many poor, no-chance calls coming in from the sideline, perhaps Rodgers won't feel a reason to change as many. 

Offline craig

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2019, 05:34:46 PM »
Last, I think there needs to be an understanding, and definitely an allowance, for Rodgers to respond to defensive sets and to make changes.  I think if MLF tells him he can't, or benches him for doing so, that would be really dumb and counterproductive.  I think there could be some greater limits, perhaps.  And then perhaps afterwards, they'd need to review and talk it through. 

What did you see that prompted you to change that call?  Lets look at the film and think through whether the called play was going to fail or not.  If there are two smart guys, MLF ought to be able to articulate why a play call was good and was well set up to succeed, and why Aaron shouldn't have junked it.  And Aaron ought to be able to explain why a play wasn't going to work.  At which point MLF might want to not just get all power-struggle, and recognize if he's sending in plays that don't have variations that are going to work, and is sending in plays that are bound to fail and lead to punts. 

But you've got to allow a reasonable amount of improv stuff.

Offline claymaker

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2019, 06:34:42 PM »
I waited over a day to post on this one...

Yeah, there is definitely a bunch in here that I think a lot of us could somewhat diagnose from the outside.  Right now, however, I have one prevailing question.  WHO WAS THE SOURCE FOR THE TELEPHONE CALL BETWEEN AR AND MURPHY?  I would really like to know the answer to that as it would explain where some of the more scandalous parts of this article came from...

Truthfully it isn't the golden piece of sports journalism everyone is making it out to be. It is a hit piece and Dunne is well known for giving a negative spin on almost everything, especially high profile players. He's like Colin Cowherd meets Skip Bayless.

Offline RT

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2019, 07:04:28 PM »
I waited over a day to post on this one...

Yeah, there is definitely a bunch in here that I think a lot of us could somewhat diagnose from the outside.  Right now, however, I have one prevailing question.  WHO WAS THE SOURCE FOR THE TELEPHONE CALL BETWEEN AR AND MURPHY?  I would really like to know the answer to that as it would explain where some of the more scandalous parts of this article came from...

Truthfully it isn't the golden piece of sports journalism everyone is making it out to be. It is a hit piece and Dunne is well known for giving a negative spin on almost everything, especially high profile players. He's like Colin Cowherd meets Skip Bayless.

I am not going to defend the article, I think people are making to big of deal out of it. But I do not agree with your assessment of Dunne, when he covered the Packers locally I always found his articles to be level and insightful. I do not remember anything in a Cowherd meets Bayless realm.

Offline ricky

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2019, 07:41:43 PM »
To get rid of Rodgers now would have 78,900,000.00 in dead money. The Packers are currently 13,144,793.00 under the cap. All the amateur capologist can save their time in claiming how they could do it by cutting players X,Y and Z. The Packers empowered Rodgers with his contract and they are stuck in this situation for at least 2 more seasons.

Thank you. Now I feel dumb for not looking that up myself. So, Rodgers is in the cat bird's seat for the next two seasons, at least. For anyone interested, here are the breakdowns. From this, the dead cap would be $59.4 million. Still unmanageable. And I will be more than willing to be corrected as to the dead cap situation.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/aaron-rodgers-3745/

And while searching for that info, this popped up from PFT. Effectively, this article argues the Packers screwed up big time by re-signing Rodgers to his current contract, the gave up any leverage with him they might have had. In short, Murphy screwed up big time, according to the writer at PFT. And after reading his argument, it certainly makes sense. Even if the article that is the basis of this thread had never been written.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/05/latest-revelations-make-aaron-rodgers-contract-look-like-a-mistake/
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 07:48:24 PM by ricky »
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid