June 24, 2019, 04:30:25 AM

Author Topic: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall  (Read 3808 times)

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Offline ricky

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2019, 03:19:42 PM »
I listened to the Wilde conversation. I hadn't heard Rodgers in a few years. He seems a little bitter. And his accent has changed. He's affecting something. Must be the crowd he runs with these days.

"crowd he runs with these days"? He's a world famous multi-millionaire, so he "hangs with" a different crowd than most of us. Big deal.

Of note in the interview amidst all the vehement denials, was that no mention was made of the massage thing. So that's actually true. That's pretty astonishing.  That will follow McCarthy forever.

McCarthy has gone on record specifically denying any such incident: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/04/mike-mccarthy-denies-he-had-massages-during-team-meetings/

Rodgers mentioned that lots of past teammates had reached out to him with support after the story dropped. I couldn't help wondering about that, considering how he systematically shuts people out of his life as he does his social climbing thing.  Would he even have returned those folks messages if not for this story?  I believe that Rodgers is a social climbing douche on a personal level, (he will never again deign to date a non-famous person, we can all bet on that) but he's talented and so yay team.

Dunne's article was a heartfelt Valentine card compared to you take on Rodgers and his life/lifestyle. You have the right to hate him, or be jealous of his talent and lifestyle. Personally, as stated earlier, I believe Dunne had an agenda when writing the article. Whether true or not, it certainly did get a lot of attention.

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Offline ricky

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2019, 03:30:54 PM »
He didn't call a press conference, however his (Murphy's) denial was pretty direct, loud and clear:

"It's all in the past, a lot of half-truths and a lot of stuff just made up," Murphy told Emerich. "The conversation that allegedly took place between Aaron and I was completely false."

Close, but no cigar. Murphy came out with this statement the day AFTER the PFT article. So, it seems he reacted to the article only after being prodded by PFT. Or maybe it's just a coincidence that he gave his denial the day AFTER being criticized by PFT.

What is interesting is that Rodgers seems to be embracing MLF's changes, and, at least publically, seems to be pretty fired up about the changes to the offense, and the direction the offense might be taking.

From CheeseheadTV: https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/a-studious-rodgers-embracing-change-learning-a-new-offense-325
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 03:35:55 PM by ricky »
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Offline The GM

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2019, 04:05:53 PM »


What is interesting is that Rodgers seems to be embracing MLF's changes, and, at least publically, seems to be pretty fired up about the changes to the offense, and the direction the offense might be taking.


The most important sentence in this entire thread.   thumbsup)


Online B

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2019, 08:10:01 PM »
I agree GM, that is indeed the most significant information in the thread thumbsup)

ricky, the intent of an article like Dunne's is to stir the pot to sell papers and clicks. It wasn't worthy of a news conferencdconference. When asked he said the article was a mis a half truths and outright lies.

I certainly do not believe that Rodgers is or should be above critique. However, it ought to be based in fact and current circumstances, not muck raking and recycled quotes from a few disgruntled ex-packers who are basking in the attention of a questionably sourced speculative piece.

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Offline Shinesman

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #79 on: April 11, 2019, 08:39:42 PM »
Does he mean they didnt have one, or that he just didnt tell Arod not to be the problem? Because Rodgers clearly said that they had a conversation. Interesting.

That’s funny, I actually LOLed a bit… You need to reread it. Murphy acknowledged the conversation with Rodgers; he’s just refuting how Done (sic) described it.

"The conversation that allegedly took place between Aaron and I is completely false." Read it, it can be interpreted that he is saying the actual happening of the conversation was false. Meaning he didnt have one. Maybe you should learn to read before insulting everyone.
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Offline craig

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2019, 06:20:41 PM »
https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/

Not sure this is the right thread.  RT has talked about his concerns with the organizational structure and Murphy in particular.  Here's more negativity about it. 

Offline ricky

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2019, 08:51:42 PM »
https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/

Not sure this is the right thread.  RT has talked about his concerns with the organizational structure and Murphy in particular.  Here's more negativity about it.

craig, excellent catch. A long article, but definitely eye opening. Someone should show this to Dunne and tell him, "This is how journalism is supposed to be." A lot of unsourced material, but both sides allowed to comment, so the reader can form their own opinions.

Anyway, it seems that Murphy is effectively the team "owner", with very little interference in how he runs the organization. Also, it seems that MLF , indeed, was effectively told to retain Pettine. Not forced, but "strongly urged" by the guy that hired him. What struck me was the apparent dislike for Ball within the organization. But the "owner" (Murphy) likes him, so he's now the guy who gets more power. Which puts more pressure on Gutekunst not to mess up when drafting.

If the team does indeed underperform again this year, who gets the ax? Does Gutekunst get moved aside for Ball to take over? Does Murphy "suggest" some changes in the coaching staff? The last time the Packers had a one year coach was Ray Rhodes (Philbin doesn't count, since he wasn't coach for a full season). These are not predictions, but distinct possibilities if the team doesn't make the playoffs with a healthy Rodgers.
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Offline happycrawfish

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2019, 07:20:55 AM »
The problem I have with these articles is the automatic assumption that a general manager running everything is the best way to run an organization. There is no evidence to support this claim as there are a lot of different ways and power structures that can lead to a successful organization. There is no one way to run an organization successfully. What really matters is that the people involved are good at what they do. People like Silverstein always come at these articles with a bias of preformed opinions that aren’t founded on factual research. While it is true that the packers have had success with the general manager structure it has also caused issues as well. While Wolf was instrumental in turning the packers organization around he was also a responsible for a downturn in its success.  Wolf and Harlan allowed Holmgren to leave and than proceeded to hire Ray Rhodes. Wolf then hired Mike Sherman and decided to give Sherman gm responsibility’s upon his departure. This was two years after Holmgen left seeking the same thing they gave Sherman. Harlan allowed Wolf to make this decision which would completely damage and set the packers organization back for years. This could have been avoided had Harlan exercised more authority over Wolf as Murphy is currently doing. I’m the end it really doesn’t matter what the structure is. They all have there pros and cons.

Offline craig

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2019, 11:14:33 AM »
Agree.  And also agree that if Ball has this major job, then I'm not sure how expecting Gute to both do his full job of managing/evaluating/procuring personnel, AND doing Ball's job besides, makes a ton of sense.  I can see a logic in letting the coach coach, letting the personnel guy use all of his time on personnel, and letting an admin guy handle a bunch of admin details.  Makes tons of sense to me.  And that kind of division of responsibility seems to work fine in many organizations, including many professional sports teams.  (I believe a number of very successful big-league baseball organizations use that kind of structure.) 

Obviously if people are making bad decisions, bad decision-makers are going to blow it almost regardless of organizational structure.  One does wonder.  I wonder especially for Murphy.  He thought it was a good idea to hire an admin guy in Ball rather than a personnel guy for GM?  And he needed MM to tell him that was dumb?  Or, he thought it was a good idea to hire a somewhat polarizing guy in Ball, and didn't realize that his head coach MM didn't respect Ball?  Sounds kinda clueless to me.  He didn't know what the organizational structure was going to be when conducting the GM search, so that his top candidate Gute didn't even realize he was really interviewing and being hired for a personnel job only?  That seems kinda clueless, too. 

It can also be an issue if guys from one department aren't supporting others.  Is Ball perhaps dragging the process when personnel guy Gute wants to sign somebody?  MLF is trying to do his job and bring in excellent position coaches; was Ball or Murphy dragging on the Rizzi hire? 

Don't think the structure is the thing; I think it's the individuals and the decision-making that each of the individuals is making that's questionable.  And **if** Murphy is a bad decision-maker and he's the top guy, it makes you worry a little. 

Offline happycrawfish

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2019, 02:19:25 PM »
To put it simply Brian Gutekunst had no formal training of any kind in football operations or salary cap matters. Neither does he have any experience or training in hiring coaches. I don’t what makes anybody feel that Gutekunst would have been any more qualified to make those decisions than Ball or Murphy.

Offline ricky

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2019, 02:58:43 PM »
  Don't think the structure is the thing; I think it's the individuals and the decision-making that each of the individuals is making that's questionable.  And **if** Murphy is a bad decision-maker and he's the top guy, it makes you worry a little.

This, to me, is the key point. No matter what the structure, the quality of the personnel running the operation should mean success. BUT, only if the administrator with ultimate decision making power knows what they are doing. If not, this could cause huge dysfunction within the organization. Lower rung employees who know what they're doing but are overruled from the "boss" decide that a new work environment would be better. A lot of egos seem to be clashing, and rathet than what is best for the organization, they could be more worried about their own private agendas.
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Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Interesting Article on the Packers Fall
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2019, 05:23:45 PM »
How often is it the management structure that makes things fail ?

People make things fail. Good personnel can thrive in a host of different environments. They are the flexible parts.

If Murphy, Ball, Gutekunst, LaFleur are good team people (along with each being good at their jobs), there is no reason this structure should fail.
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