September 17, 2019, 10:36:01 PM

Author Topic: UDFA's  (Read 5545 times)

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Online ricky

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2019, 10:07:44 PM »
Out of all these FA's and tryouts, odds are very, very good that at least one of them will make an impression in camp and make it onto the 53. Who will it be?
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Offline RT

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2019, 05:42:18 AM »
Out of all these FA's and tryouts, odds are very, very good that at least one of them will make an impression in camp and make it onto the 53. Who will it be?

Predicting who the players will be can be a bit tricky, but without a doubt there will be UDFA's on the opening day roster. Last year Tyler Lancaster would of been my first choice, but he needed to spend time on the PS before getting his chance on the 53. Tim Boyle, Raven Greene and Alex Light all 3 made the opening day roster and none of them looked to stand much of a chance when this list came out a year ago, Light was probably 3rd on the list of OL alone.

This year the most highly thought of prospects are probably OL Yosh Nijman, EDGE Greg Roberts, LB Curtis Bolton and QB Manny Wilkins. Nijman is facing a deep OL and may end up on the PS first. Roberts is probably the player with the clearest path to the 53, he simply needs to equal Kendall Donnerson and Reggie Gilbert to earn the 5th edge rushing LB spot. Bolton is a LB that plays with his hair on fire and with his ST's mentality to playing the game and the Packers lack of proven depth at ILB, I believe he has a fair chance as well of making the opening 53. Wilkins is the trickiest to visualize of this group, but who saw Boyle coming out of the QB group last year. Never say never.

Also their probably will be a DB emerge from this group, but who that will be is rather foggy at this time. Nydair Rouse may well be a sneaky prospect in that group, a 4 year player at Division II West Chester who lead his team to an undefeated regular season in the always tough Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference. After playing 3 seasons at safety and corner was switch to a hybrid LB last season, the Packers signed him as a DB, but is another that could surface because of his mental toughness and versatility.         

Online craig

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2019, 06:42:36 AM »
I'm surprised at some of the groups. 
1.  I'd have thought RB would be an attractive spot for UDFA.  Only 2 carryover roster guys and a 6th rounder; and of course RB is a high injury-rate spot.  Would have thought self-confident UDFA would have seen GB as a great opportunity, one-injury away from a roster spot, if I can only out-impress whatever carryover practice squad guy(s) might be there. 

2.  Likewise I'd have though confident ILB guys would have been targetting the Packers as the camp-of-opportunity to go for. 

3.  CB too.  Packers aren't deep there at all, and that's a large position group with high injury-rates.  The chance of roster space there is really strong, for a self-confident CB.  Surprised they didn't sign any CB's other than tryouts, other than the WR-conversion guy who's obviously competing for PS spot, not for 53-man roster. 

Online craig

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2019, 06:49:58 AM »
I'm interested in U North Dakota CB Deion Harris, who was only signed to a tryout.  6'3", 200, sub-4.5 speed at one point.  As with so many guys, what they maybe ran once upon a time, and what they run now after perhaps years of college injuries, and after perhaps adding weight and strength may differ.  So maybe the 200-lb post-Achilles version doesn't run sub-4.5 anymore. 

But I think some of these guys who might not be the best prospect at Alabama and might not start as a freshman, maybe is clearly the best guy at UND, and gets tons of game experience starting right out as a freshman, plus maybe staying through senior year instead of leaving early; and perhaps a position coach who sees NFL talent perhaps invests lots of time in a guy, since there would be tons of satisfaction for a coach, (and selfish professional value, too) in being a coach who helped develop and prepare a kid for NFL success.  (And a really nice recruiting pitch, too; "we've had NFL guy Deion Harris in our program; we can get you ready for the NFL too...") 

Offline RT

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2019, 08:28:21 AM »
I'm interested in U North Dakota CB Deion Harris, who was only signed to a tryout.  6'3", 200, sub-4.5 speed at one point.  As with so many guys, what they maybe ran once upon a time, and what they run now after perhaps years of college injuries, and after perhaps adding weight and strength may differ.  So maybe the 200-lb post-Achilles version doesn't run sub-4.5 anymore. 

But I think some of these guys who might not be the best prospect at Alabama and might not start as a freshman, maybe is clearly the best guy at UND, and gets tons of game experience starting right out as a freshman, plus maybe staying through senior year instead of leaving early; and perhaps a position coach who sees NFL talent perhaps invests lots of time in a guy, since there would be tons of satisfaction for a coach, (and selfish professional value, too) in being a coach who helped develop and prepare a kid for NFL success.  (And a really nice recruiting pitch, too; "we've had NFL guy Deion Harris in our program; we can get you ready for the NFL too...")

That would be a nice story to follow as a regional guy for you craig.

Projecting from his pro day numbers, I wonder if a move inside to safety isn't in his future if he is going to have one in the NFL. He appears to have lost some of his speed, ran a 4.64/40. Measured 6'-2 1/8" and weighed in at 201 and added a 6.84 3-cone, so the size and short area quickness is there. One worth watching to see if he can grab one of the 2 available roster spots.

Offline RT

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2019, 08:46:37 AM »
I'm surprised at some of the groups. 
1.  I'd have thought RB would be an attractive spot for UDFA.  Only 2 carryover roster guys and a 6th rounder; and of course RB is a high injury-rate spot.  Would have thought self-confident UDFA would have seen GB as a great opportunity, one-injury away from a roster spot, if I can only out-impress whatever carryover practice squad guy(s) might be there. 

2.  Likewise I'd have though confident ILB guys would have been targetting the Packers as the camp-of-opportunity to go for. 

3.  CB too.  Packers aren't deep there at all, and that's a large position group with high injury-rates.  The chance of roster space there is really strong, for a self-confident CB.  Surprised they didn't sign any CB's other than tryouts, other than the WR-conversion guy who's obviously competing for PS spot, not for 53-man roster.

Agree with you about the ILB group, from the outside it does appear that there is a roster spot or two to be won at that position.

Not in total agreement with you on RB and CB, IMO I believe they are in fairly good shape at those positions barring a rash of injuries. Not saying that they can't add talent, just don't think prospects are lining up to get in those position rooms if other options are available with other teams.

A position you did not mention that is probably on par with ILB is the Safety position. The Packers typically keep 5 and a couple of years ago they kept 6 on the opening day 53. They signed Adrian Amos as a FA, drafted Darnell Savage and have two carryovers that probably have a strong likelihood of making the roster, but that is only 4 and behind them at this moment is only street FA Tray Matthews and a hodge-podge of UDFA's. There is room for someone to come in and win a job at the Safety position.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2019, 10:08:31 AM »
Out of all these FA's and tryouts, odds are very, very good that at least one of them will make an impression in camp and make it onto the 53. Who will it be?
This year the most highly thought of prospects are probably OL Yosh Nijman, EDGE Greg Roberts, LB Curtis Bolton and QB Manny Wilkins. Nijman is facing a deep OL and may end up on the PS first. Roberts is probably the player with the clearest path to the 53, he simply needs to equal Kendall Donnerson and Reggie Gilbert to earn the 5th edge rushing LB spot. Bolton is a LB that plays with his hair on fire and with his ST's mentality to playing the game and the Packers lack of proven depth at ILB, I believe he has a fair chance as well of making the opening 53. Wilkins is the trickiest to visualize of this group, but who saw Boyle coming out of the QB group last year. Never say never.       

I agree on all these choices RT. Each has a realistic shot, and GB is noted as a team that gives equal opportunities to udfa's. 

Offline Hands

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2019, 01:40:21 PM »
I agree with dannobanano, and RT in that all the UDFA will get fair shakes and chances to stick. I think what we are seeing is that more drafted guys are making the roster and leaving fewer spots available for these types of FAs. Gilbert is a prime example. He has had two years to make himself a valuable member of the defense. He hasn't done it. Before last year, Frack was in jeopardy to losing his roster spot to Gilbert. Frack came through and got 10 sacks. Gilbert could still make the team, but two new FA edge guys, Smiths, and last year's pick Donnerson along with Gary.....his path to a roster spot is very difficult.
As fans, we love the dark horse players, but this year's defense has limited the spots available on that side of the ball.
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Online craig

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2019, 09:19:10 AM »
...U North Dakota CB Deion Harris

Projecting from his pro day numbers, I wonder if a move inside to safety isn't in his future if he is going to have one in the NFL. He appears to have lost some of his speed, ran a 4.64/40. Measured 6'-2 1/8" and weighed in at 201 and added a 6.84 3-cone, so the size and short area quickness is there. One worth watching to see if he can grab one of the 2 available roster spots.

Wow, that's terrible, I hadn't seen that.  No wonder he got only a tryout contract.  If with his current size and post-injury he can't run anymore, that's not going to be a compelling NFL prospect.  Too bad. 

I'd seen reference to "sub 4.5". 

Offline RT

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2019, 01:41:29 PM »
Here a look at the signing bonuses for the UDFA's, the amount spent probably is directly related to how badly the Packers wanted each player and why I believe Greg Roberts has a very good chance of making the opening day roster. This is from Rob Demovsky.
 

$7,000 signing bonus plus $65,000 of base salary guaranteed: Greg Roberts, LB.

$7,000 signing bonuses: Curtis Bolton, LB; Matthew Eaton, WR; Davis Koppenhaver, TE; Yosh Nijman, T; Randy Ramsey, LB; Manny Wilkins, QB.

$4,200: Javien Hamilton, CB.

$2,500: Kabion Ento, CB; Nydair Rouse, CB.

$2,000: Larry Williams, G.

Online craig

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2019, 08:45:00 AM »
RT, is it your understanding that the "base salary guaranteed" is unique to Roberts, and something we've never seen with past Packer UDFA? 

Or is that perhaps something that's often been true with guys in years past, and may also apply to several of the other $7K bonus boys? 

2nd Q:  What does that $65K correlate to?  Is that basically guaranteeing the salary of a 53-man-roster spot for a full season?  (Even if they don't actually carry him on the roster, he's still guaranteed that level of salary?) 

Or, is that perhaps what a full-season on the practice squad would get, maybe?  So he's not guaranteed a spot on the "63-man-roster", as MM would call it, but he's at least guaranteed that level of salary? 

3rd, there is normally a salary difference between practice squad and being on the actual 53-man roster, right? 

Offline RT

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2019, 09:30:30 AM »
RT, is it your understanding that the "base salary guaranteed" is unique to Roberts, and something we've never seen with past Packer UDFA? 

Or is that perhaps something that's often been true with guys in years past, and may also apply to several of the other $7K bonus boys? 

2nd Q:  What does that $65K correlate to?  Is that basically guaranteeing the salary of a 53-man-roster spot for a full season?  (Even if they don't actually carry him on the roster, he's still guaranteed that level of salary?) 

Or, is that perhaps what a full-season on the practice squad would get, maybe?  So he's not guaranteed a spot on the "63-man-roster", as MM would call it, but he's at least guaranteed that level of salary? 

3rd, there is normally a salary difference between practice squad and being on the actual 53-man roster, right?

I do not recall the Packers ever giving a guaranteed base salary in the past, someone may prove me incorrect here, but I do not remember it ever happening. I look at this as Gute being spicy TT again, like last year drafting a CB a half inch to short or an OL who was not a 100% match to their guidelines. Gute broke from his operations of business to get a player he strongly coveted, the exception to the rule. Not the new rule.

A rookie minimum salary this season is 495K for a player on the 53, the minimum salary for a PS player last season was 7,600. a week or 129,200. for the full season (I have not seen what a PS salary is yet for 2019).

How the 65K guarantee is handled will depend on what Roberts roster status ends up as. If he make the 53 it does not change anything because after about 2 game checks he will have made more than the guarantee and the Packers are off the hook for nothing more than the 7K signing bonus like six others got. If the Packers release him after that the original 7K signing bonus will be prorated to dead money, but no penalty for the 65K. If he is cut coming out of training camp and moves on the 65K is paid and applied against the salary cap.

I may be miss reading this move, but I see it as Gute seeing a depth hole on the roster and thinks this is a UDFA with a strong chance to fill that spot. Again this may be me getting too far off the beaten path, but I believe this may tell us a little something about his thoughts on Kendall Donnerson and Reggie Gilbert. Has Donnerson not progressed and has Gilbert plateaued? Their is a reason why Gute broke from the normal and did what he did and it is not because he just felt like spending some money.     

           

Offline dannobanano

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2019, 11:43:16 AM »
https://totalpackers.com/2011/09/packers-hold-graham-harrell-in-somewhat-high-regard/

Packers paid Graham Harrell over $96K to keep him from getting poached off the practice squad.

It wasn’t up front money like Roberts, but it was a ton of money for a PS guy.

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2019, 01:49:20 PM »
Unless there is a position change for one of these guys, the tail-end of the OLBs should be a competition between Gilbert, Donnerson, Summers and Roberts.

Gilbert is a bigger guy, but his 40 time is a rather average 4.79 (especially for the Packers, who love the high RAS guys). Roberts is 1/10th faster. Fackrell is 4.72. Summers and Donnerson are (respectively) running 4.51 and 4.48, which is getting very fast for a linebacker. (especially Donnerson who goes 250lb, Summers is about 9lb lighter). Of course, speed is only one facet of the game, but you can't teach physical really, just 'speed in the head' (aka instincts).

If I were to make a WAG, I'd say Gilbert is gone, Roberts best hope is the practice squad, and Donnerson and Summers might make the 53, both being mostly on ST.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 01:51:25 PM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: UDFA's
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2019, 02:11:49 PM »
Unless there is a position change for one of these guys, the tail-end of the OLBs should be a competition between Gilbert, Donnerson, Summers and Roberts.

Gilbert is a bigger guy, but his 40 time is a rather average 4.79 (especially for the Packers, who love the high RAS guys). Roberts is 1/10th faster. Fackrell is 4.72. Summers and Donnerson are (respectively) running 4.51 and 4.48, which is getting very fast for a linebacker. (especially Donnerson who goes 250lb, Summers is about 9lb lighter). Of course, speed is only one facet of the game, but you can't teach physical really, just 'speed in the head' (aka instincts).

If I were to make a WAG, I'd say Gilbert is gone, Roberts best hope is the practice squad, and Donnerson and Summers might make the 53, both being mostly on ST.

Summers was drafted to play ILB, so I wouldn't lump him into the group with these other players.

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/packers-take-inside-linebacker-ty-summers-with-their-final-pick/article_11a60b9e-450b-574f-9ede-59a3bd18b822.html


Roberts was given a sizeable bonus at signing, so I think if all things were equal between him and Gilbert/Donnerson then Roberts gets the nod.