August 21, 2019, 10:52:05 AM

Author Topic: Trade Daniels?  (Read 1840 times)

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Offline WTX_Cheese

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2019, 10:12:05 AM »
There's no reason to prematurely get rid of Daniels. At the very worst, he's an EXCELLENT rotational guy.

Offline craig

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2019, 11:10:08 AM »
.....Does the team need the extra cap space right now? Because next year, if Daniels is not re-signed, the team clears up cap space that will be needed to re-sign Clark, for example. Again, what's the rush?

Every multi-year FA with substantial signing bonus has a big jump in cap hit year two.  Smiths, Turner, Amos, all four will have big spikes next year.  The team is not going to have the discretionary spending money next year that they had this year.  So freeing up a bunch of millions, while not helping this year, would certainly open up opportunities next year. 

I'm not at all advocating to let Daniels go, I have no idea.  But **IF** the scouting evaluation is that he's replaceable with a young guy, and you can save $8M or whatever in the process, have $8 to spend next year might help a whole bunch. 

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 01:52:48 PM »
I just added up the 2020 cap charge for the top 10 players on the Packers roster....................$182.32M
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

This could be a very strong indicator that the Packers will be very very tight against the cap in 2020.
They can gain $3.75M by releasing Tramon Williams before the season as well.
They can also gain $12.5M by letting Graham and Lane Taylor go next year, but still............they made need more room and Daniels would be a savings of $8M.

The 2019 NFL salary cap in $188.2M. The 2018 salary cap was $177.2M

The salary cap will likely go up next year. You can guess it could be in the same neighborhood as the jump from 2018 to 2019 (~$11M), but don't assume that's a given. No one knows for sure. It could be more/less depending on a number of factors. It likely goes up, but how much is subject to conjecture.

Packers currently have $13.14M in cap space left on the 2019 cap. Some of that can be rolled over to next year, but you can bet it won't be that full $13M.

Keeping Daniels for 2019 can make sense, but only is he earns it.............like everyone else. If it works out that way, then I've just wasted 20-30 minutes with some useless typing.

But there are three other players who could be the determining factor on whether or not Daniels stays, or goes ........... and when.

Clark, Martinez, and Lowry.

Saving Daniels 2019 salary could make it possible to extend one of either Lowry or Martinez now, in 2019, rather than try and wait and potentially pay "market rate" in free agency next year, which may become unaffordable depending on their market demand.

Clark's 5th year option will likely be a cap charge of around $7M-$8M, based on what they paid to HHCD for his 5th year option (~$5M).

Gute could roll the dice and wait, but you can almost hear the outcry already................"He should have found a way to keep those guys!!!" Goodness, sometimes I hate 20/20 hindsight.

Go back to the Silverstein article where he compares DL height/weight and other measurables and traits. Daniels is the only outlier. Does that automatically disqualify him from making the 2019 sqaud?
Certainly not!

But there are trends happening in what kind of players Gute is bringing in to remake the Packers team. And Daniels doesn't fit the profile, in multiple ways.

As for his leadership, again refer to the Silverstein article. His claim is that there were other on the defense (Wilkerson, Dial) who were better "leaders" than Daniels. Currently, you could look at Clark, Martinez, The Smith's, or Amos. Veterans are veterans, doesn't mean they have to have long tenure on the team to be looked at as leaders. If you can walk-the-walk, then you can talk-the-talk. There may be multiple players who supplant Daniels in that regard

So unless M-Adams, Lancaster, Z-Smith, P-Smith, and Gary are playing like bums, it could be an uphill battle for The Diesel to make this team in 2019 when you factor everything together.

I hope he balls out and makes it a mute point for the Packers to even consider. Let the cream rise to the top.



Offline claymaker

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2019, 06:20:05 AM »
Silverstein has an interesting column suggesting it might be time for the Packers to move on from Mike Daniels, citing the following reasons.

# The Packers have a profile of what they like in the D line- length, long arms and versatility. Daniels doesn't meet any of those criteria.

# Even if he stays he will have his snaps decreased, something he won't be happy with in a contract year.

# They are unlikely to retain him this year so they should try to get something for him like they did with HHCD

# Trading him for a pick saves $ 8 million.

Will that 8 million carryover to next year? Remember only so much can carryover. Looking at the defensive line Daniels and Clark are the only two proven players. Has he been a great player? No, but he has been a good one. Certainly good enough to see if he's still got it. And if he doesn't then another team isn't going to trade for him, not even a 6th round pick. I believe he still has enough to offer this team in terms of leadership and playing ability to keep him.

To me, Green Bay is so good at managing the cap I'm not worried about them saving 8 million right now or in the future. If they could get a 4th round pick for him then by all means trade him, but I don't believe any team would agree to that trade.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 06:21:42 AM by claymaker »

Offline croquet

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2019, 08:31:03 AM »
The redskins gave up a fourth to rent ha ha for part of a season. Some team would make that trade for Daniels.

That said I would not trade him until we begin to see how this defense comes together. And even then I would be careful not to unload a big body.

I have always liked Daniels and he is just getting the talent around him to make a run.

In Pettine I trust.

Offline RT

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2019, 09:22:34 AM »
It's hard to believe that this 'trade Daniels' thing can gain this much steam, but every year there seems to be this same conversation only with a different name. Fans get lost in the contract stuff and justify their case accordingly, but the Packers took care of the accounting part of this before FA started. If they were getting rid of Daniels over money it would of been done by March 15th.

As I stated last year when this talk was about Matthews and saving X number of dollars to move on from him, if Matthews was one of the 4 best OLB's on the team the Packers were not getting rid of him. Winning games is the name of the business and keeping your best players is the best way to win games.

The Packers will probably keep 6 DL this year and if Daniels is one of the 6 best DL on the Packers, the Packers are not getting rid of him. Looking at this current DL room it looks fairly chalky unless injuries strike them. Outside of Daniels the rooms consists of Kenny Clark, Montravius Adams, Dean Lowry, Kingley Keke, Tyler Lancaster and all five of those have a very good chance of making the 53, who after that is going to challenge Daniels for his spot on the roster? The remaining DL on the roster are James Looney, Fadol Brown, Deon Simon and Eric Cotton, not a single one of those guys can carry Daniels jock.

Daniels is a human wrecking ball and is still the second best DL on the Packers team and in the big picture is fairly cheap at 8M this season. The Packers will in all likelihood not re-sign him after the 2019 season, but the Packers are not trading him this year.       


Offline dannobanano

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2019, 10:02:16 AM »
We also had this discussion about Cobb last year. Was he worth keeping at his ~$10M salary or should they trade/cut him?

If the Packers could have a do-over on Cobb this year, I wonder if they would do it the same as they did last year.

Same context applies, this year, to Daniels, and maybe even more-so since GB knows more about what they have in DL talent than they did last year about WR talent.

I think listing Fadol Brown in a negative light is a disservice to him and his ability. They were just as pleased with how he played last year as they were with Lancaster, yet Lancaster get's props. but Brown can't carry a jockstrap. I don't get it?

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2019/1/9/18173252/five-packers-who-earned-opportunities-for-2019-during-the-final-stretch

"Tyler Lancaster
The undrafted rookie defensive tackle from Northwestern graded out very well down the stretch, becoming a dependable run defender for the Packers in the midst of injuries to Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark. After beginning on the practice squad, Lancaster made the most of his chances when called up in early October and even posted six tackles against Chicago. His ability to consistently withstand blocks from interior offensive linemen before shedding blocks and finding the ballcarrier, as seen below, truly was a bright spot in the team’s dismal ending to the season.

Fadol Brown
Claimed off waivers from Oakland only a month ago, Brown only played in four games for the Packers. But his energy, quickness off the snap, and athleticism was present in flashes for Green Bay and should have another opportunity in training camp to see if he can replicate those traits.
Although Lancaster’s consistency will give him a leg up, Brown’s performance in back-to-back plays against Chicago was impressive and opened some eyes. Brown’s burst inside off the snap stuffed a third down rush in the backfield. Then, another finely-shredded block on a fake punt attempt resulted in a drive-ending tackle on the next play.
No, Brown is not guaranteed a roster spot next season, but he put himself on the radar in just four games."


If there's anyone on the DL group that might be on the hot seat, it could be Montravious Adams.

I also think that Rashon Gary will see as many snaps as a member of the DL, even though they list him as a OLB, which could open a roster spot for udfa Greg Roberts.


I still suspect there will be a lot of changes in how this defense operates under Pettine this year, and part of that is going to be a constant rotation of DL personnel to keep the pressure on opposing OL's and QB's. It will likely mean Daniels number of snaps could decrease significantly and could hurt his stats/future market value as a pending FA.

Will he be content to be a "rotational" guy?

ps..............

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/an-early-handicap-on-potential-packers-cap-casualties-548

"1. Mike Daniels: 1 yr/$10.72 million ($2.4 million dead cap).  With the emergence of Tyler Lancaster, James Looney, last season and the selections of Rashan Gary and Kingsley Keke this season, Mike Daniels could find himself on the outside looking in if one or more players from this list emerge. 
All of these young players are on rookie contracts and moving on from Daniels could save the Packers as much as $8.3 million in cap space during a time when the Packers don't have much financial flexibility and are looking to get younger.
My Take:
Personally, I think the Packers should hang onto all of the players on this list for a few reasons.  1. They all still have value and will help the 2019 Green Bay Packers. 2. Their cap figures will come off of the books for the 2020 season anyway and will allow the Packers the financial flexibility to resign Kenny Clark and pursue another young free agent or two.  3. The Packers could still restructure or resign these players to team-friendly extensions that will lessen their cap hits in each of the next 2-3 seasons which would make the roster stronger while still providing financial flexibility.  4. The Packers would only need to free up more cap space if a big name became available via trade or training camp release.  The Packers should just sit tight and develop every player on the roster so they can maximize their production in 2019."
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 10:22:10 AM by dannobanano »

Offline RT

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2019, 11:16:07 AM »
I may well have misinterpreted what I believe you are thinking Fadol Brown is, but Brown is not in the same sentence with Daniels or Lancaster. I don't know if you are selling Daniels and Lancaster short or you have over valued Brown, but Brown is not in the same league with either one. Lancaster was the highest graded rookie on the Packers team last season by PFF with a 77.5 and Daniels is a former Pro Bowl player and twice voted by fellow players as a top 100 player in all of the NFL. He was ranked 93rd by his peers on the NFL Top 100 Players of 2018, that was not to long ago.

Brown is a player that has bounced around since being an UDFA and was a healthy cut by the Raiders in season last year. The same Raiders that were last in the NFL in QB pressures, yet they cut this guy in season. He played in 4 games for the Packers and had 2 tackles, but I believe they came on back to back plays against the Bears and now people think he is a thing. IMO he has a very small chance of making the 53 without a rash of injuries striking the position. On the NFL gridiron I don't think Brown can carry Lancaster or Daniels jockstrap, he is just not in the same conversation as quality of players go. IMO.     

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2019, 11:27:32 AM »
You see a glass half (or more) empty.

I see it half full.

We just view him differently.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/06/packers-interested-in-bringing-back-dl-fadol-brown/

BTW........I’m a big Lancaster fan.  thumbsup)

« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 11:33:25 AM by dannobanano »

Offline RT

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Re: Trade Daniels?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2019, 11:48:35 AM »
Not sure what the link reps, but he was a no risk exclusive rights free agent re-sign. No signing bonus and his exclusive rights contract has an injury clause in it that has the Packers only on the hook for half if he should suffer a season ending injury. What should be a little telling there is that he was the only exclusive rights free agent that settled for that clause, it was a case of that or the Packers were willing to release him. He and his agent took it because they new there was little to market for him. He is a camp body.

Not sure how someone gets a half full, half empty analogy from that. A camp body is just a glass and the amount of water it may end up with is yet to be determined.