September 15, 2019, 03:06:15 AM

Author Topic: Day 3 Live Draft Comments  (Read 3529 times)

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Offline RT

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #75 on: April 28, 2019, 08:51:51 AM »
Most obvious observation: in the sixth and seventh, the Packers went speed. All those guys are burners. Something that can't be taught (though Don Beebe might disagree).

True, but IMO they went for speed (and general athleticism) through the entire draft, perhaps with the exception of OG Jenkins and RB Williams, but even the two of them weren’t necessarily slow.

I'm not sure how you came to your conclusions about Jenkins and Williams, both tested very well athletically.

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Offline RT

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2019, 03:35:42 PM »
It was suggested by CheeseheadTV that Kingsley could be a replacement for Montravius Adams IF Adams doesn't show a lot of improvement this year. Could be. Replace what would be a more expensive role player/project with a cheaper version. One with possibly more upside. And interesting thought, IMO.

That is a bad take from CheeseheadTV. Adams played very well at the end of last season and the needle is pointing straight up for him. Kingsley Keke is the 2020 replacement for Daniels, Keke will get his rookie season to learn how to be a professional and get some NFL seasoning and hopefully be ready to try and fill Daniels shoes in his second year. Adams is going nowhere.
 

Offline ricky

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2019, 03:44:53 PM »
It was suggested by CheeseheadTV that Kingsley could be a replacement for Montravius Adams IF Adams doesn't show a lot of improvement this year. Could be. Replace what would be a more expensive role player/project with a cheaper version. One with possibly more upside. And interesting thought, IMO.

That is a bad take from CheeseheadTV. Adams played very well at the end of last season and the needle is pointing straight up for him. Kingsley Keke is the 2020 replacement for Daniels, Keke will get his rookie season to learn how to be a professional and get some NFL seasoning and hopefully be ready to try and fill Daniels shoes in his second year. Adams is going nowhere.

So, if Kingsley is the heir apparent to Daniels, Adams is... what? Just curious, and always willing to learn.
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Offline RT

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2019, 03:47:52 PM »
It was suggested by CheeseheadTV that Kingsley could be a replacement for Montravius Adams IF Adams doesn't show a lot of improvement this year. Could be. Replace what would be a more expensive role player/project with a cheaper version. One with possibly more upside. And interesting thought, IMO.

That is a bad take from CheeseheadTV. Adams played very well at the end of last season and the needle is pointing straight up for him. Kingsley Keke is the 2020 replacement for Daniels, Keke will get his rookie season to learn how to be a professional and get some NFL seasoning and hopefully be ready to try and fill Daniels shoes in his second year. Adams is going nowhere.


So, if Kingsley is the heir apparent to Daniels, Adams is... what? Just curious, and always willing to learn.

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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2019, 04:08:37 PM »
Adams, Keke, and Fadol Brown could all be playing a role in the future reshaping of the DL.

(1) Daniels, the 5th highest paid Packer in 2019, will be on the wrong side of 30 when he hits FA in 2020. What he will be seeking in another contract will determine whether or not he stays. Much of the early talk seems to be indicating that he would accept signing "on the cheap" just to stay a Packer, and why should he? That is the business side of the NFL.

(2) Also, Kenny Clark will be getting tabbed with his 5th year option for next year, so he will get a very nice bump in pay, likely several million dollars. Then Packers will likely extend him early next year to get than number down for cap purposes, but it makes little sense to do so now. The option gives them time and flexibility.

(3) Then there is the case of Dean Lowry. He will also be an UFA in 2020. While he's not a super star, he has proven to be a valuable and dependable part of the DL rotation. He's a lunch pail/blue collar kind of guy that you love to have. But will his asking price also price him out of Green Bay as well? Much will depend on how well his health and level of play hold up in 2019.

These are three reasons why drafting Kingsly Keke, resigning Fadol Brown, and keeping/continue developing M-Adams (and Lancaster) are important elements to the success of the 2019 DL, and beyond.

Offline RT

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2019, 04:24:16 PM »
In the case of Lowry I ask this question, when was the last time the Packers signed a player to a second contract that was not a core player on the unit they played on? Lowry is a rotational player who IMO has almost zero chance of getting a second contract with the Packers. This is in all likelihood both Daniels and Lowry's final season in GB.

Offline craig

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2019, 07:40:58 PM »
Thanks, RT, that's an interesting question and I hadn't thought of it like that.  You may be right.  Perhaps the distinction between "rotational" and "core" is a bit hard for me to define.  In a sense, Lowry *has* been a core player over the last two seasons.  Whether that's a core player you want to keep around, or whether being a "core" in a kinda bad defense means you don't want to keep him around, that's beyond my scouting and GM'ing aptitude. 

As to your rhetorical question, one of the issues is that with the limited effectiveness of recent Packer drafts, they just haven't had many guys who were both healthy enough and functional enough that they belonged in the league after their first contract.  And of those who did belong, they have tended to command starter-caliber money?  Heyward, he was signing for significant money, TT chose to let him go. 

But how many guys are kind of Lowry-level?  Functional rotation/depth, I think he's got a bunch of years left in the league.  But unless he has a really excellent season, I wouldn't expect him to be commanding a big contract. 

I don't see why it would be implausible for the Packers to sign a guy to a $5/3 contract or something like that, or $4/2, or whatever his market will demand.

Offline RT

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2019, 09:03:51 PM »
I would like to see them keep Lowry around under a deal like you suggest, but those deals just never happen. Since 2005 I can not think of one such signing. Their have been many that were good contributors, but not core players and none of them re-signed. Jake Ryan this year would have been cheap insurance at ILB, but no attempt was made to sign him and I understand why. Ryan is getting 1.25M to play in Jacksonville this year and the Packers draft Ty Summers in the 7th round and have him for a little over 500K for the next 4 seasons. And the same thing probably will happen in Lowry's case.

The list is long of good Packers that departed after their first contract expired, but the list has no names of those types that re-signed. JC Tretter, Micah Hyde, Casey Hayward, Devon House, Brandon Jackson, Daryn Colledge, Brady Poppinga, Mike Montgomery, Corey Williams and several others of lesser degrees were all good Packers who needed to go elsewhere to sign their second contract.

One day there may well be an exception to the rule, but until then I will believe the rule has no exception.   

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2019, 05:32:46 AM »
In the case of Lowry I ask this question, when was the last time the Packers signed a player to a second contract that was not a core player on the unit they played on? Lowry is a rotational player who IMO has almost zero chance of getting a second contract with the Packers. This is in all likelihood both Daniels and Lowry's final season in GB.

You reinforce my point RT.

Lowry will be, in all likely hood, a classic case of "JC Tretter" when it comes to getting that 2nd contract.

In all likelihood, Lowry would need to have a "contract season" similar to what Nick Perry did to earn his 2nd contract, as we remember that GB had refused to exercise Perry's 5th year option.

Lowry stands a slim chance to accomplish this simply because he's a rotational player and doesn't get enough plays/game to be able to make enough of an impact.

What it possibly means is that Gute could be drafting not just one, but two DL in 2020 because, like Daniels, Lowry could likely be gone and 2020 will also be the final contract year for Montravious Adams, who could also be a question mark for a 2nd contract.

Offline craig

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2019, 11:54:12 AM »
....The list is long of good Packers that departed after their first contract expired, but the list has no names of those types that re-signed. JC Tretter, Micah Hyde, Casey Hayward, Devon House, Brandon Jackson, Daryn Colledge, Brady Poppinga, Mike Montgomery, Corey Williams and several others of lesser degrees were all good Packers who needed to go elsewhere to sign their second contract.

One day there may well be an exception to the rule, but until then I will believe the rule has no exception.

Good points.  Yeah, maybe there will never be an exception. 
But to some degree I think players are case-by-case. 
Using that list of case-by-case:
JC Tretter, Micah Hyde, Casey Hayward, Devon House, Daryn Colledge, Corey Williams (an especially special case):  All of those guys got paid significant, serious starter-caliber money.  Agree that if Lowry is getting serious starter-money elsewhere, when the Packers value him only as rotational low-salary, obviously he's gone. 

Mike Montgomery:  Unique case, with the team chemistry and the weird kickoff runback. 

Brandon Jackson, Brady Poppinga:  Guys we just did not want back.  Wanted new backs, wanted different skill-set OLB than Poppinga.  Don't think Packers wanted those cats on the roster even if they were on rookie minimum contracts. 

That may be Lowry as well.  Perhaps you are right, there is no exception, there is no in-between between the serious-money starters and the rookie contract guys.  Either you're an ascending player ascending towards a starting job, or else if that isn't reality by the end of rookie contract then it's time to start over with a new ascending prospect.  And maybe $1-$1.5 is too much to swallow. 

It's also possible that Gute may have a slightly different approach than TT did. 

Offline RT

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #85 on: April 30, 2019, 08:56:15 AM »
....The list is long of good Packers that departed after their first contract expired, but the list has no names of those types that re-signed. JC Tretter, Micah Hyde, Casey Hayward, Devon House, Brandon Jackson, Daryn Colledge, Brady Poppinga, Mike Montgomery, Corey Williams and several others of lesser degrees were all good Packers who needed to go elsewhere to sign their second contract.

One day there may well be an exception to the rule, but until then I will believe the rule has no exception.

Good points.  Yeah, maybe there will never be an exception. 
But to some degree I think players are case-by-case. 
Using that list of case-by-case:
JC Tretter, Micah Hyde, Casey Hayward, Devon House, Daryn Colledge, Corey Williams (an especially special case):  All of those guys got paid significant, serious starter-caliber money.  Agree that if Lowry is getting serious starter-money elsewhere, when the Packers value him only as rotational low-salary, obviously he's gone. 

Mike Montgomery:  Unique case, with the team chemistry and the weird kickoff runback. 

Brandon Jackson, Brady Poppinga:  Guys we just did not want back.  Wanted new backs, wanted different skill-set OLB than Poppinga.  Don't think Packers wanted those cats on the roster even if they were on rookie minimum contracts. 

That may be Lowry as well.  Perhaps you are right, there is no exception, there is no in-between between the serious-money starters and the rookie contract guys.  Either you're an ascending player ascending towards a starting job, or else if that isn't reality by the end of rookie contract then it's time to start over with a new ascending prospect.  And maybe $1-$1.5 is too much to swallow. 

It's also possible that Gute may have a slightly different approach than TT did.

I think you bring in an interesting variable and that is Gute, he has has proven that he will enter into a gray area in the draft for a player he has a personal liking to. He hasn't yet done that with a second contract for a Packers player, but will he sway from their model in the future? Only time will tell.

Offline Donzo

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Re: Day 3 Live Draft Comments
« Reply #86 on: May 01, 2019, 01:34:12 PM »
Summers is a nice 7th round pick. Kinda a ILB version of Donnerson from last year, but with more football talent and production.