May 26, 2019, 04:43:19 PM

Author Topic: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...  (Read 847 times)

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Online B

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Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« on: May 08, 2019, 10:23:55 AM »
Which 2nd and/or 3rd year... players do you expect to make the most significant leaps in 2019. Follow with why?

WE can have seperate threads for rookies and veterans.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2019, 12:13:27 PM »
Thanks for the idea B.


Thinking offense I see three players.

1.) Geronimo Allison. Through the first 4 games last year he was on pace for 76 receptions, 1156 yds, and 8 TD's until the injury bug hit him hard and throttled his season. Allison was showing a solid rapport with Rodgers through those first 4 games. He may not be a burner, but he has positional versatility in that he can play the boundary and the slot. Being able to move around makes it more difficult for defenses to account for him. He's a legit candidate for #2 WR.

2.) Marquez Valdes-Scantling. His height and speed are coveted assets of any HC/OC. He got thrown into the fire early last year when it may have been best for him to sit and learn a little more, but I think all those game reps were invaluable for him and will help the game "slow down" more for him this year. If he can digest the new offense of MLF and Hackett, I think he could present a problem on the boundary. One of the big knocks against him last year was inconsistent hands, but we saw less of that as opposed to not being in the spot where Rodgers wanted him. That gets fixed this year and he will take a big step forward

3.) Aaron Jones. While Jones has already showed that he is an explosive offensive weapon, I think the best is yet to come for him. Especially in the multiple ways he could be used by MLF. Getting him the ball in space and then letting him "create" could open up a whole new element to the Packers offense. Jones could be a threat as both a runner and a receiver in this new offense. If they can keep him healthy and spell him with the Williams boys I could easily see him having over 1,000 yds of rushing and over 500 yds in pass receptions, to go along with a dozen or more TD's. Mr. Excitement could be on full display this year.

On defense, when it comes to 2nd/3rd year players I see just one.

1.) Oren Burks. Burks was just never right after he hurt his shoulder in warm ups before the Raiders pre-season game. I wonder if it bothered him to the point that it impeded his ability to play fast because he was thinking about the shoulder way too much. His game regressed quickly and he ended up riding the pines. If he has been diligent in his off season work, I believe he could take a major step forward this year, and especially since it's the 2nd year in Pettine's system. He has wonderful athletic talents as an off the ball cover LB, and the Packers desperately need someone to step up in that role. Would love to see this young man become that guy.



I'll save rookies for another thread, should one get started.

Offline The GM

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2019, 12:15:32 PM »
A few good candidates, but I'll  go with J'mon Moore.  I think he fell behind early last year and got outworked.  I think he makes a big leap this year.  It doesnt mean he starts, but I think he becomes a contributor and from where he left off last year to this coming year is a decent leap. JMO.

Offline RT

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2019, 12:19:22 PM »
Good question B and good job bringing the focus back to where the real improvement will come from this season. From the players that were in the locker room last season.

2nd year players.

First is a trio, a trio of WR's that have been lumped together since draft day. Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Equanimeous St. Brown and J'Mon Moore all should be taking a giant leap of improvement this season after a rookie baptism by fire in 2018. The on the field last year was priceless for their development.

Oren Burks is more of a hope for me than he should/will. Martinez talked about Burks at the voluntary workouts in April and commented on how much better he looked this year and also how much of an athletic freak he was. Fingers crossed that transfers to the football field this coming season.

Josh Jackson showed some flashes last season, but probably a little more bad than good. The Packers are going to need 3 or 4 good CB's and it would be helpful if Jackson took that second year jump in improvement.

JK Scott and Hunter Bradley, Specialist are almost always inconsistent in their rookie seasons and tend to be much more consistent their second seasons. Scott has the leg to be a Pro Bowl punter, hoping he becomes the weapon that Gute drafted him to be.

Since I went all the way here, I may as well add Raven Greene to this group also. Really liked what I saw from him as a rookie and think he is going to be a good pro for the Packers.

3rd year players.

Montravius Adams and Josh Jones are the two 3rd year players that I have high hopes for this season, both finished the season on a strong note even if most fans were no longer paying attention. I will be surprised if Adams is not the starting DT opposite of Daniels this season. As for Jones, the stat that caught me off guard that I saw this past week was from PFF and their grading of Safeties in the last 5 games of the season. In the last 5 games last season Jones was the 5th highest rated Safety against the run in the NFL, he is a player that just kept getting better as the season went on. A high number of fans have already given up on these two, but I believe that is premature and would be a mistake to think that.

     
   

Online B

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2019, 03:05:41 PM »
 clap) goodpost goodpost goodpost danno, GM and RT

I know a good portion of the national press has questioned the failure to add to the WR group but like you I am excited to see what Marquez Valdes-Scantling, who has size and speed to create mismatches, Equanimeous St. Brown, who is only 22 and loaded with upside and J'Mon Moore, who has worked his ass off since seasons end after getting too intoxicated with all the Adams comparisons. All three will benefit from their experience of baptism by fire in '18 on the field with Aaron Rodgers. Geronimo is a guy who makes plays is all aspects of his game, route running consistency, using his body and strength as a pass catcher and blocker and never giving up on play in practice or on game day.

... to be continued. I'm headed out to a late night of music in Dublin tonight.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 03:08:50 PM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2019, 03:18:20 PM »
1) CB Josh Jackson (yr2)   I think he takes a big jump this year, especially if he learns how not to give away penalties.
2) CB Kevin King     (yr3) With K.K. it's all about staying healthy. If he does that, I think he'll be good.
1)  S  Josh Jones     (yr3) Just a couple of signs late last year that he was 'getting it'. This year we find out if that's true.

I'd like to pick a receiver. That position group is all about upside, with MVS, ESB, J'Mon, Allison and others, but I just don't know which one to pick. ILB Oren Burks was a good call as well, he could make a big jump.

My surprise contributors are ST candidates, and i have two. First is 7th round pick, rookie LB Ty Summers from Texas Christian. I think he will be on a lot of ST this year. He is a bit stiff, but he is 6'1", 240, can really move (4.51 40), with a very high RAS score. He has the speed, size and demeanour to be a core contributor. He is a little shorter and slower  ??? than 2nd year guy Kendall Donnerson, but both would rate elite in RAS scoring, and either or both could be good on ST.

 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 03:25:32 PM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Online B

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2019, 04:33:19 AM »
OneTwoSixFive brought up Kendall Donnerson, a player I agree is an intriguing possibility for a major 2nd year leap. Granted the 6-foot-3, 250-pound Donnerson did not face the type of competition at Southeast Missouri State to prepare him for the speed and down to down talent he would face in the NFL, but the ridiculous numbers he put up at Missouri Western’s Pro Day are eye popping. Kendall ran his 40-yard dash in 4.44 seconds while showing absurd explosiveness with a 1.55-second time in the first ten yards, a 40-inch vertical, and a 10-foot-11 broad jump – only his impressive 7.03-second time in the 3-cone drill would not have finished tops at his position at the combine (though it still was in the top 25%).

One would think that Shawn Mennenga, the Packers new special teams coordinator would be salivating at the prospect of having such an athletic phenom at his disposal, and that Mike Smith, the new outside linebackers coach has to be excited to have such athleticism at the bottom of his depth chart to work with.

Kendall may or may not ever deliver, but like you 1265, he is a 2nd year guy I am excited to keep an eye on in 2019.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 04:34:35 AM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Online B

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2019, 06:31:51 AM »
I also agree that 3rd year Josh Jones should remain on everyone's radars screen. While many fans got overly excited about his measurables - 6'1" WT: 220 LBS, 4.41 40, 37.5 Verticle, 11 FT Broad jump, 20 reps bench... - too many seemed equally quick to give up on him when he didn't meet their lofty expectations in yrs one and two.

Just as several scouts predicted, I believe it has taken Jones time to reign in his aggressive nature and conquer the complexities of playing safety in the NFL.

Given his prototypical combination of size and speed he adds immediate value as a box safety, nickle and dime MLB and special teams player. As the game slows down for him I still think Josh has the ability to become a good, long-time starter in the NFL.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2019, 07:54:08 AM »
This one will probably come up again when RT does his positional review for OLB's, but I thought I'd drop it in here so it doesn't get forgotten.

https://packerstalk.com/2019/05/19/watch-packers-donnerson-in-2019/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PackersTalk+%28PackersTalk.com%29

[Each year there’s always a candidate or two that end up making a big jump in year two, someone overlooked and unexpected. My “darkhorse” this season to make that unexpected jump is LB/Edge Rush Kendall Donnerson, 6’3″, 250 LBs, 4.4 40 yd dash, 40 inch vertical jump and a RAS score of 9.98 (exactly the same RAS as Rashon Gary #12 overall 2019, draft). If a certain “expected” player (Oren Burks) doesn’t make that second year jump, Donnerson may leap frog Burks on the depth chart.
For those who are unfamiliar with Donnerson, he was the #248 pick in the 7th Round of the 2018 NFL Draft. The Packers 3rd and final pick in that 7th round. Coming out of Southeast Missouri State, he was a long shot to even make the team. He ended his college career having started 21 of 45 games, 144 Tackles (84 Solo), 1 INT, 9 Passes Defended, 6 FF, 1 Fumble Recovery, #3 in school history in TFL (34.5), #4 in Sacks (12), and First Team All OVC. His athleticism impressed the Packers so much that he signed to the Practice Squad on September 2, 2018. Donnerson was promoted to the Active Roster on December 2, 2018 when Ibraheim Campbell was placed on Injured Reserve.
During the pre-season, Donnerson appeared to flash some good defense, registering a TFL and a FF during his limited time on the field, approximately 20 plays. Once on the active roster for the final four games, it was expected he’d see some playing time. Donnerson hoped he would be able to showcase his athletic ability that jumps off the page. Unfortunately he never saw a game day active roster. With the Packers 2018 season in the tank by that time, it should have been an easy decision to get Donnerson on the field. I’m guessing with the Head Coaching change it just wasn’t in the cards and maybe promoting him was a way to keep him for 2019.
I know Kendall put in a lot of hard work in the off season back in Arkansas. He spent time working on his skills with a close friend of mine, who described him as a freak athlete. Kendall worked on speed, agility, coordination, core training and instinct training. He performed with exceptional success, which will now hopefully transfer to the field this off season and earn him playing time in the Fall.
Watch out for Kendall Donnerson LB Green Bay Packers in the 2019 season! My selection for dark horse improvement!]

Online B

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2019, 11:55:26 AM »
Thanks Danno, Kendall certainly has all the physical talent in the World to compete -- 4.44 in the 40-yard dash, 1.55-second time in the first ten yards, a 40-inch vertical, and a 10-foot-11 broad jump, 7.03-second in the 3-cone drill... the developmental process for him will be much more between the ears than anything below the neck.

He came into the league pretty raw and green. It is great to hear about his off season hard work. At minimum he ought to be a great special teams contributor and some awfully talented depth.

Another 3rd year player that gets lost in the shuffle is Blake Martinez with his 144 tackles, five sacks and 2nd on defense 1,049 snaps. He has such a veterans' presence that it is easy to forget he is only entering his 3rd season.

Blake wants to take his game to a whole new level, and apparently has really been putting in the work physically and mentally to get there. In his own words:

“I basically gained seven pounds and lost 3½ percent body fat, which the strength and conditioning coaches say equated to losing eight pounds of fat and gaining 15 pounds of muscle. I’m not messing around this year. Last year, I wasn’t happy. A lot of things went into it.”

“There’s a lot of things I want to keep improving on, whether it’s tackling, coverage, rush, turnovers, forced fumbles. Anything you can do along the line of a middle linebacker, it’s one of those things that I’m going to keep striving for.”


Speaking of hungry to get better, Oren Burks certainly seems to fit that description headed into his 2nd season.

Martinez said of Burks recently:

“He’s a freak of nature. He’s got every ability in the book to be an amazing player and I think he’s working extremely hard every single day making sure he’s in the meeting rooms by himself, watching film, doing extra things, always asking me questions.”

Burks has been quite clear that he was disappointed with his rookie performance and doesn't hide behind the shoulder injury that clearly stunted his development.

“I know what type of ball I’m capable of playing, and I’m feeling like I didn’t live up to my own expectations. I’m hungry to get back after it, to prove to myself, prove to the team, my worth.”

“I feel like I got a taste of what I need to do this offseason to be ready to go when we come back for OTAs and get ready for the season. I’m excited for the future. My best ball is ahead of me. I’m hungry. I’m hungry to get back at it.”

The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Online B

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2019, 09:11:58 PM »
For what it's worth:

Oren Burks 6' 3", 233 lbs, 33 3/8-inch arms
Devin Bush 5' 11", 234 lbs, 32 inch arms
Kendrall Donnerson 6' 3" 250 lbs, 33 inch arms

Three-cone drill:
Burks 6.82 seconds
Bush 6.93 seconds
Donnerson 7.06

20 yard Shuffle
Burks 4.15
Bush 4.23
Donnerson 4.37

40 time:
Burks 4.59
Bush 4.44
Donnerson 4.44

Vertical jump:
Burks 39.5 inches
Bush 40.5 inches
Donnerson 40 inches

Broad jump:
Burks 10 feet, 11 inches
Bush 10 feet, 4 inches
Donnerson 10 feet, 11 inches

 

« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 09:25:53 PM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline craig

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2019, 11:50:30 AM »
It's unfortunate for the packers that combine measurables don't more closely correlate to actual on-field NFL excellence.  We'd have a more terrific roster if that were more true.  Seems we've done a lot of drafting and UDFA-signing of combine kings, but they haven't consistently had the decision-making aptitude to actually play the game on the field. 

But, sometimes combine kings to figure things out and become useful NFL players.  **IF** Burks could figure out how to make quick and appropriate decisions, it would be super fun if he turned into a capable player.  Same for Donnerson. 

I think the thread point is well taken, that even if Donnerson might never have the computational speed to play from scrimmage, perhaps for ST where the mental aptitude has a lower threshold he'll become excellent.  Or, maybe it will all comes to him with more experience and he'll end up being a useful scrimmage guy too, someday. 

Burks, I'm really interested and optimistic.  Will be really interesting to see whether he can figure things out and diagnose/decide instantly and correctly in a way that was not possible for him last year.  Would be a huge beak if he filled a role and became a winning regular. 

Offline craig

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2019, 11:54:04 AM »
As for the thread, I think this should be a really interesting camp and a really interesting season.  There are just so many  young players with a chance to step up.  A whole bunch of guys with combined qualities, and often with strong draft status, at ages where they might well emerge pretty significantly.  I'm just guessing as to who is most likely to actually do so.  But as Branch Rickey stated, "out of quantity comes quality", and I think we have a strong quantity of candidates, odds are good that some young players, plural, will step up and become variably good players. 

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2019, 02:31:11 PM »
I'm going to add Robert Tonyan to this list as well.

He's really immersed himself into the TE culture this off season, and I look for it to pay dividends for this young man this season. He entered college as a quarterback and then switched to WR, where he set school records. For the NFL he switched again, to become a TE. He's a work in progress, but he got the tools to be successful.

He has amazing athleticism for a man his size.
6-5/245
4.58 forty time
35" vertical
10'5" broad juimp
7.12 3-cone
4.34 20-shuttle
16 bench

https://twitter.com/TomSilverstein/status/1101537327543930881


Online B

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Re: Which 2nd and/or 3rd year...
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2019, 03:54:54 PM »
Great addition and info Danno! I thought about adding Tongan as a 2nd year guy not to sleep on. He seems to have a GREAT combination of intellect and athleticism.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi