July 21, 2019, 10:56:43 PM

Author Topic: Position look: QB  (Read 2769 times)

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Offline RT

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019, 09:04:04 AM »
They blew it this year.  Could have gotten Rosen for #2 pick and we would have been set.  Missed opportunity to land a potential franchise QB on the cheap.  We will be hard pressed to get a guy going forward as I expect the Packers to be drafting late over the next few years.  This was the year to grab one either Lock or Rosen.  Next transition will likely be a tough one.

I understand the frustration of feeling like it was a missed opportunity, but I don't think the door is now closed on future opportunities. Another QB will come their way and the most important thing is that they are prepared to capitalize on the situation. I do believe they were very interested in Lock with their 2nd round pick.

 
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Per source: Green Bay was definitely interested in Drew Lock, Broncos traded up to get ahead of Packers.

Offline scoremore

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019, 09:08:49 AM »
Wasn't all that enamored with Lock to be honest.  Accuracy is more important than arm strength.  Rosen was the guy I really wanted would have been a perfect fit for the Packers.  Would have felt a lot better with him backing up Rodgers and believe he could have thrived with the Pack.  Oh well guess Gute felt differently.  They may still be able to get him eventually.  Rosen thrown into another bad situation in Miami hopefully it doesn't ruin him.

Offline The GM

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 02:49:03 PM »
They blew it this year.  Could have gotten Rosen for #2 pick and we would have been set.  Missed opportunity to land a potential franchise QB on the cheap.  We will be hard pressed to get a guy going forward as I expect the Packers to be drafting late over the next few years.  This was the year to grab one either Lock or Rosen.  Next transition will likely be a tough one.

I like Rosen as much as the next guy, but there will be opportunites to get a good QB down the road.  Its no so much what you spend in draft choices to get one, its finding  the right fit for your team.  Brady, Wilson, and Brees weren't first round choices.    You also have to figure Rodgers longevity and what the plans are with him.  Is he breaking down with injuries?, is he going to play into his 40's?   You always want a capable backup but looking for his replacement at this point might be a little premature.  JMO.       

Offline Gregg

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 05:34:14 PM »
I kind of agree with that one.

I think we are all aware of how this team plays when AR is injured.  And AR is not getting any younger.

I would have liked us to either trade for Rosen, or drafted a QB.

Wolf used to do this all the time with Favre..  And it worked.  Since he would just trade the guy for picks. And some of those guys ended up being starters after.

For some reason, we do not do that anymore.  I don't know why.


Online craig

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2019, 05:51:02 PM »
...For some reason, we do not do that anymore.  I don't know why.

I can think of at least 3 reasons why:
1.  We've been in full Nowacrat mode.  And after some not-that-successful drafts, our roster has been talent-deficient.  With 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round selections, they've been targeting other positions and players who might be good help within a year or two. 
2.  IN Wolf's day, they had an extra year of rookie contract.  That extra year is huge, hugely huge, for trade value, and it's huge for value as a good backup too if you sacrifice the first couple of years to development.
3.  Not only do we lose that year of development and value, but the CBA doesn't allow practice.  They could practice 3 times as much in Wolf's day, and even in early MM era he could do his QB school and stuff like that to bring prospects along.  With no QB school and 1/3 the practice time, it's a lot harder to develop a raw prospect. 

I would also say that Wolf was good at scouting QB's.  Not sure that Gute and the recent guys are as good?  (Beats me, but my understanding is that they had a 1st-round grade on Kizer pre-draft and continued to love him after his rookie season, an evaluation that thus far doesn't seem vindicated.) 

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2019, 07:02:46 PM »
I would also say that Wolf was good at scouting QB's.  Not sure that Gute and the recent guys are as good?  (Beats me, but my understanding is that they had a 1st-round grade on Kizer pre-draft and continued to love him after his rookie season, an evaluation that thus far doesn't seem vindicated.)

To be honest, I'm not sure TT was ever that great at evaluating QB's. With Rodgers, he got lucky with a future HOF'er falling into his lap.

Go back and look at some of the other QB's he drafted along the way (Ingle Martin, Brian Brohm, Matt Flynn, BJ Coleman, and Brett Hundley).

Ted had the final say on all those picks, regardless of input from Gute, E. Wolf, McKenzie, Schneider, or Dorsey.

I'm not trying to be mean to TT, but he always had the final word.

With regard to Kizer............TT was already compromised, healthwise, and MM was pounding the table for him. I think MM owns that one more than anyone else.


Offline RT

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2019, 08:13:14 AM »
...For some reason, we do not do that anymore.  I don't know why.

I can think of at least 3 reasons why:
1.  We've been in full Nowacrat mode.  And after some not-that-successful drafts, our roster has been talent-deficient.  With 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round selections, they've been targeting other positions and players who might be good help within a year or two. 
2.  IN Wolf's day, they had an extra year of rookie contract.  That extra year is huge, hugely huge, for trade value, and it's huge for value as a good backup too if you sacrifice the first couple of years to development.
3.  Not only do we lose that year of development and value, but the CBA doesn't allow practice.  They could practice 3 times as much in Wolf's day, and even in early MM era he could do his QB school and stuff like that to bring prospects along.  With no QB school and 1/3 the practice time, it's a lot harder to develop a raw prospect. 

I would also say that Wolf was good at scouting QB's.  Not sure that Gute and the recent guys are as good?  (Beats me, but my understanding is that they had a 1st-round grade on Kizer pre-draft and continued to love him after his rookie season, an evaluation that thus far doesn't seem vindicated.)

All good points craig. One more point is that it just isn't normally a good return on investment. Look at the Patriots and Garoppolo, they invest a 2nd round pick in him and train him for 3 years and trade him for a 2nd round pick. That is the one that worked out. None of the guys Wolf drafted and traded brought a windfall of any sorts. Brooks was a 3rd round pick and the Packers got a 3rd round pick back. The only deal that returned much of a positive return was Mark Brunell, he was a 5th round pick and the Packers got back a 3rd and a 5th.

Fans remember the good, but forget about the QB picks that were just lost draft capital with Wolf. The Wolf theory of drafting a QB every year brought the Packers in '95, '96 and '97 the QB's Jay Barker, Kyle Wachholtz and Ron McAda. Nothing gained there.   

Online ricky

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2019, 03:37:19 PM »
A major here: that Rosen is a starting caliber QB. Totally unproven, though he does have potential. Whether that potential will make him a franchise QB or a good backup or a journeyman remains to be seen. If Rosen was brought in, would be the defacto heir apparent to Rodgers? And what would happen to Boyle or Kizer if the Packers only went with two QB's? This would be putting a lot of faith in Rosen's ability to become a franchise QB. And would very probably cause some hard feeling from Rodgers. We've seen this scenario play out once before, and personally, the thought of seeing AR in another uniform is very unappetizing.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline RT

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2019, 04:12:19 PM »
                          GAMES   ATT/COMP   COMP%   YARDS   TDS/INTS   RATING   QBR   RUSH YARDS       
Rookie QB #1        14        393/217       55.2       2278       11/14         66.7     26.6       138

Rookie QB #2        15        476/255       53.6       2894       11/22         60.5     29.7       419

Two rookie QB's thrown into the fire as rookies. Some think one is a future franchise QB while the other is a bum, but who is the franchise QB?     

Offline RT

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2019, 08:17:48 PM »
                          GAMES   ATT/COMP   COMP%   YARDS   TDS/INTS   RATING   QBR   RUSH YARDS       
Rookie QB #1        14        393/217       55.2       2278       11/14         66.7     26.6       138

Rookie QB #2        15        476/255       53.6       2894       11/22         60.5     29.7       419

Two rookie QB's thrown into the fire as rookies. Some think one is a future franchise QB while the other is a bum, but who is the franchise QB?     

One of these is DeShone Kizer and one is Josh Rosen.

Offline footballdad

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2019, 05:58:04 AM »
No facts whatsoever to base this on, but maybe somebody not currently on the roster? Would really love to see a vet. Pederson or Flynn type who can step in and win a few games if need be.
Vets will be available when cutdowns start.

Offline scoremore

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2019, 07:09:35 AM »
A major here: that Rosen is a starting caliber QB. Totally unproven, though he does have potential. Whether that potential will make him a franchise QB or a good backup or a journeyman remains to be seen. If Rosen was brought in, would be the defacto heir apparent to Rodgers? And what would happen to Boyle or Kizer if the Packers only went with two QB's? This would be putting a lot of faith in Rosen's ability to become a franchise QB. And would very probably cause some hard feeling from Rodgers. We've seen this scenario play out once before, and personally, the thought of seeing AR in another uniform is very unappetizing.

If Rosen is beats out Rodgers so be it.  Rodgers beat out Favre.  Given Aaron's injury history think it is reckless not to have a legitimate QB behind him.  Rosen is unproven but is very smart and also is accurate with the football.  Firmly believe he would have thrived in GB.  Played on one of the worst teams in the NFL last year.  No O-line and no weapons.  Now he's going to Miami another bad situation.  I really don't care about Kizer or Boyle.  We could have had Rosen for our #2 pick in the draft.  Rosen or no Rosen Aaron will retire a Packer. 

Whether Rosen would have been our next great QB who knows?  Way I look at it cheap insurance against Aaron going down again.  Also taking a shot at finding the next guy.  Don't care about stats from Rookie seasons Kizer can't hold Rosen's jock strap IMO.  Rosen might not do well in Mia either.  GB would have been the perfect situation.  Sit and learn behind Rodgers until he's ready.   Unless Aaron changes his style of play he won't last more than 2 or 3 seasons.

Packers need to start the search now.  It's incredibly difficult to find a franchise QB.  We'll be drafting late which will make it that much harder.  Feel like we missed an opportunity here.  The Packers need to start planning for life after Rodgers.  It might take a couple of shots before we hit on the next great GB QB.

Offline RT

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2019, 07:52:14 AM »
A major here: that Rosen is a starting caliber QB. Totally unproven, though he does have potential. Whether that potential will make him a franchise QB or a good backup or a journeyman remains to be seen. If Rosen was brought in, would be the defacto heir apparent to Rodgers? And what would happen to Boyle or Kizer if the Packers only went with two QB's? This would be putting a lot of faith in Rosen's ability to become a franchise QB. And would very probably cause some hard feeling from Rodgers. We've seen this scenario play out once before, and personally, the thought of seeing AR in another uniform is very unappetizing.

If Rosen is beats out Rodgers so be it.  Rodgers beat out Favre.  Given Aaron's injury history think it is reckless not to have a legitimate QB behind him.  Rosen is unproven but is very smart and also is accurate with the football.  Firmly believe he would have thrived in GB.  Played on one of the worst teams in the NFL last year.  No O-line and no weapons.  Now he's going to Miami another bad situation.  I really don't care about Kizer or Boyle.  We could have had Rosen for our #2 pick in the draft.  Rosen or no Rosen Aaron will retire a Packer. 

Whether Rosen would have been our next great QB who knows?  Way I look at it cheap insurance against Aaron going down again.  Also taking a shot at finding the next guy.  Don't care about stats from Rookie seasons Kizer can't hold Rosen's jock strap IMO.  Rosen might not do well in Mia either.  GB would have been the perfect situation.  Sit and learn behind Rodgers until he's ready.   Unless Aaron changes his style of play he won't last more than 2 or 3 seasons.

Packers need to start the search now.  It's incredibly difficult to find a franchise QB.  We'll be drafting late which will make it that much harder.  Feel like we missed an opportunity here.  The Packers need to start planning for life after Rodgers.  It might take a couple of shots before we hit on the next great GB QB.

I thought there was a chance the Packers might of been players for Rosen, but they didn't get involved and that is fine also. I don't think Kizer is the answer because he is just too slow to process on the field, but I also don't know if Rosen was the answer either. The Packers decided that they would rather keep their 2nd round pick and draft an OLineman and if that is what the Packers thought was the best decision, well I guess I don't disagree with the decision. I am sure that the Packers are always looking for their next great QB, but I doubt they are even a little concerned they missed out on Rosen.     

Offline scoremore

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2019, 09:00:08 AM »
No doubt they aren't losing any sleep over it or he'd be a Packer.  They are in win now mode that is clear.  Me I like to keep on eye toward the future.  Also don't like putting all my eggs in on Aaron.  His ability to stay healthy is a major concern for me.  No faith in Kizer at all.  None.  Agree the game is too fast for him.  Sure he has physical traits but that won't cut it at QB.  Have to be able to read a defense. 

Packers must have faith that Rodgers has several more good years.  I hope they are proven right.  Rosen was in mind the perfect fit for the Packers.  Smart and accurate.  Just having him as a back up was worth #44 for me.  If Rodgers goes down we at least wouldn't throw the season away.  With MLF and the new offensive game plan maybe Rodgers will get the ball out quickly avoid getting hit and this will be a non issue.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: QB
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2019, 09:30:17 AM »
No doubt they aren't losing any sleep over it or he'd be a Packer.  They are in win now mode that is clear.  Me I like to keep on eye toward the future.  Also don't like putting all my eggs in on Aaron.  His ability to stay healthy is a major concern for me.  No faith in Kizer at all.  None.  Agree the game is too fast for him.  Sure he has physical traits but that won't cut it at QB.  Have to be able to read a defense. 

Packers must have faith that Rodgers has several more good years.  I hope they are proven right.  Rosen was in mind the perfect fit for the Packers.  Smart and accurate.  Just having him as a back up was worth #44 for me.  If Rodgers goes down we at least wouldn't throw the season away.  With MLF and the new offensive game plan maybe Rodgers will get the ball out quickly avoid getting hit and this will be a non issue.

Cheer up score! All is not lost.

The Packers may still be able still get your man, who you pound the table for, after this next season.

Miami is a dumpster fire that just keeps burning. They could easily be in the race for the #1 pick in next years draft (Tua? Herbert?), and that could put Rosen squarely on the trading block again, but maybe for even less than what Miami anted up this year (pick #62) to get him.

https://www.thephinsider.com/2019/4/29/18522407/miami-dolphins-could-still-draft-a-quarterback-in-2020-nfl-draft-josh-rosen-tua-herbert-fromm

[According to Albert Breer of Sport’s Illustrated’s MMQB, Chris Grier would be open to drafting a quarterback in 2020 if things didn’t pan out with The Chosen One.
“Every team in the league is looking for that guy that’s going to lead them to championships,” Grier said. “And so for us, we’re in a position where we’re trying to find that guy, like a lot of teams in the league. So yeah, it was an easy decision. And it doesn’t stop us from doing anything in the future. Who knows? If things go well and we feel he’s the guy, who knows? But it doesn’t stop us from doing anything.”
If Rosen doesn’t pan out, the Dolphins have set themselves up quite nicely to acquire their quarterback of the future. But until they find the heir apparent to Dan Marino’s Iron Throne, they should do whatever it takes to find ‘their’ franchise signal caller. Even if that means drafting a Tua Tagovailoa or Justin Herbert in 2020.]


My personal preference would be to see the Packers trying to draft a QB next year to develop as the potential heir to Rodgers.
The two guys I'd have eye's on would be Jake Fromm and Jacob Eason.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 09:31:25 AM by dannobanano »