August 21, 2019, 12:28:23 AM

Author Topic: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?  (Read 5136 times)

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Offline B

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2019, 03:21:54 AM »
I agree ricky about him lacking any type of leverage.

However, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that he is faking a hamstring injury - not in his past or present.

While I wish he had attended OTA'S, they are indeed voluntary. He showed up on time, attended practice, andinteracted with coaches and teammates. Accusing a professional player (especially a young one) of malingering  is serious business, and ought to be supported by more evidence than - well Mike McKenzie held out and forced a trade 15 years ago, therefore Josh Jones who has not held out a single day must be faking it seems beneath you brother.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 03:23:49 AM by B »
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Online ricky

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2019, 10:28:53 AM »
B, I'll stand by my instinct on this one. Jones wants out. He has no leverage. So he's trying to create leverage. Will it work? Only if the Packers decide they want to accomodate him. So, the team has a decision to make: do they (a) release Jones and give others the idea they'll accomodate them if they are suddenly "injured" after asking for a trade? Or (b) do they keep him around, and then cut him when it is much less likely there are any roster spots available on other teams- say, a few games into the season. Perhaps (and this is simply projection) Jones sees the latter scenario as possible/probable, and is trying to force his way off the team by being unavailable due to an "injury".
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Offline RT

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2019, 11:50:02 AM »
They are not releasing him. They probably will trade him, but they are not releasing him. He has value to almost every team in the league, there is and will be a market for him if that is the end decision the Packers make.   

Online ricky

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2019, 02:14:18 PM »
They are not releasing him. They probably will trade him, but they are not releasing him. He has value to almost every team in the league, there is and will be a market for him if that is the end decision the Packers make.

True, the Packers are certainly hoping to get something for Jones. But this kind of situation happens on a regular basis. Other teams are well aware of Jones' wanting a trade, and are more than willing to either wait, or offer very poor compensation. This doesn't mean that Jones has any leverage- as noted, the Packers can simply designate him as PUP and let him sit. But it doesn't mean the Packers have any leverage with another team. Then again, all this time and effort on here spent on a guy who has shown limited ability, is disgruntled, and simply wants a change of scenery to see if he can do better elsewhere. But it is the off-season/slow time, and there won't be any real competition until TC opens on July 25.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline B

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2019, 03:13:17 PM »
Wow ricky, it's not usually like you to be so absolute and convinced that your subjective hunches and opinions are somehow objective reality.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Online ricky

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2019, 04:01:20 PM »
Wow ricky, it's not usually like you to be so absolute and convinced that your subjective hunches and opinions are somehow objective reality.

True, I will change my opinion if given facts that prove me wrong. A recent example in this thread was when I suggested a possible trade of Jones for Johnson. I was unaware of Johnson's contract details, which would make a trade a really bad idea. But Jones is unhappy in GB. And I really believe he is looking at some way of trying to force the Packers to let him go. And right now, the Packers are saying they are not interested in trading Jones: https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-with-no-current-plans-to-trade-s-jones-239

This, of course, is all part of the "dance" a team with a disgruntled player goes through. Because saying the guy is trade bait puts out an air of desperation. As I said earlier, other teams are well aware of the situation, and are playing a waiting game. Why offer something when it could happen they could get Jones for the cost of a waiver claim? Because eventually, it comes down to this: either the team adds him to the roster, they trade him, or they cut him. If Jones were a high caliber player, or someone with a lot of perceived upsdie, then a trade might be possible. But right now, he is a limited player who has not shown the ability to improve at his position. Change the scenario: its the Packers who are thin at a position, would you push for the Packers to trade for a player like Jones? Or would you suggest a "wait and see" strategy? 

 
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline RT

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2019, 04:23:36 PM »
They are not releasing him. They probably will trade him, but they are not releasing him. He has value to almost every team in the league, there is and will be a market for him if that is the end decision the Packers make.

True, the Packers are certainly hoping to get something for Jones. But this kind of situation happens on a regular basis. Other teams are well aware of Jones' wanting a trade, and are more than willing to either wait, or offer very poor compensation. This doesn't mean that Jones has any leverage- as noted, the Packers can simply designate him as PUP and let him sit. But it doesn't mean the Packers have any leverage with another team. Then again, all this time and effort on here spent on a guy who has shown limited ability, is disgruntled, and simply wants a change of scenery to see if he can do better elsewhere. But it is the off-season/slow time, and there won't be any real competition until TC opens on July 25.

The Packers do not have any extra leverage with other teams, but they are not over a barrel either. Fans look at it like they are buying something retail and want to drive a hard bargain, but teams don't look at it that way nor should they. Every team is simply trying to put the best team they can on the field and front offices and coaches know the clock is ticking on them. No GM is ever saved his job because he played hardball and got a player for a 6th round pick instead of a 5th. If a player makes a team better and the asking price is fair value, you spend fair value and improve your team. Winning saves their jobs, not being petty on a trade.

I went through this last year with Hundley and trying to explain to people that he did have trade value. After going back and reading those 2 threads, I now remember some of the ignorance I dealt with on that topic. Hundley and his contract had value and that is also the key with Jones value, his contract. You stated that this situation happens on a regular basis, but it doesn't happen on a regular basis with cheap contracts. Most of the players we hear the trade rumors and later released are players teams may like, but with contracts teams do not like.

As I have quoted former GM Pat Kirwan before, 'a GM trades for a contract, a player just happens to come along with it'.       

Online ricky

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2019, 06:02:19 PM »
RT, fair enough. The Packers will do what is best for the team in this matter. Other teams will also do what is best for them. Would you see this as similar to the trade of Randall for Kizer? Just curious, not saying there is a parallel. Because sometimes a player can thrive in a different system. Or is more amenable to being coached with a different approach. Or whatever. Briefly, this is more of an intellectual exercise to keep the site alive during the doldrums, rather than something I'm really invested in. I hope the Packers and Jones both get what they want and are successful now and in the future.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline PackerJoe

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #68 on: June 18, 2019, 12:53:29 PM »
I thought jones was starting to come on at the end of the year, when alot of players were injured or thrown in the towel. There are always injuries, you can count on king getting hurt in the first four games, last years safety is a 36 year cb, our DL and lb should provide more pressure taking heat off the db's, so the defense should be better.  If he stuck around another year, and performed, he would have much more leverage.  Maybe he wants to go to Baltimore or Carolina and be closer to home. Hey I get that.  If he insists on a trade, perhaps we can pick up a speedy, talented linebacker.  One potential to think about, we could couple him and spriggs in a deal. Like both players and think a change of scenery would bode well for them (IE Indianapolis, Cincinnati).  Someone out of the NFC.

Online ricky

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #69 on: June 18, 2019, 02:46:08 PM »
Deleted for being overly argumentative on a subject I really don't care about. Why needlessly antagonize others over an issue that effectively really doesn't matter, and is just fodder for the slow days of football? Have at it, fellow posters.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 02:50:44 PM by ricky »
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline RT

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #70 on: June 18, 2019, 03:05:08 PM »
Deleted for being overly argumentative on a subject I really don't care about. Why needlessly antagonize others over an issue that effectively really doesn't matter, and is just fodder for the slow days of football? Have at it, fellow posters.

Not a big deal ricky, it is slow and will be for another month. A little back and forth about a marginal player is perfectly fine for discussion.

IMO your comparison of Jones and Roberts is an apples to oranges comparison, they are not even close to the same quality of players. As I stated before, Jones has value and if the Packers decide to move him they will get something in return. Unless he becomes a felon between now and training camp of course.

Offline Hands

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2019, 06:31:27 AM »
Maybe if Jones does a felony before TC, the Packers will think he's getting more aggressive and play him more often.....The fact is I really want Jones to make a splash this year. I do think he has the ability, I don't think he wants to be that LB/SS hybrid player that seems to fit his playing style. I think he sees himself as a FS that can come up and lay the wood ala Earl Thomas. Someone, agent/coach/friend/ bystander on the street, needs to get through to him that he's fast but not NFL decision making fast. That seems to be the big issue with him and his dream of being a big Earl Thomas will never happen.
He has some of the tools to be a Ronnie Lott....just not all of them. So I still think/hope/wish that he takes that big step in improvement. He's got talent, just need to figure out his limitations and how he can help the team.
In the land of the blind.....the one eye man is king!

Offline B

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2019, 08:53:18 AM »
Interesting take hands. I think Josh Jones' problem is too much aggression. I think he believes it doesn't  help him to find and develop that more thoughtful/controlled aggression he needs to thrive in this league shuffling between positions. If JJ were being well represented/mentored he would be encouraged to be patient and believe that with his physical talent his time will come. Sometimes patience is the hardest transition to make for guys like Jones who have instantly been stars at every level prior to the NFL.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Offline RT

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2019, 09:14:13 AM »
Hands, I think the only major limitation Jones has is right between his ears. From day one he has been a to cool for school guy, he has been smarter than anyone that has crossed his path in his lifetime and a couple years in the NFL hasn't changed anything. He fired the agency (First Round Management) that represented him after the draft because he wasn't drafted higher. Early last season he showed his entitlement again when he complained that he wasn't drafted in the 2nd round to not be playing. He seems to believe that things should be given to him and when they are not, rather than digging deep and fighting for it he complains, throws a temper tantrum or just quits.

This behavior is probably pretty deep seeded and it is doubtful anyone in his circle will be able to reach him until he hits rock bottom. After he is out of the NFL for a few years it will probably hit him about how dumb he was with blowing his opportunity to set him and his children up for a better future, but it happens in every walk of life. Everyone lives and learns, for some it is just a lot more costly.       

Offline RT

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Re: Josh Jones wants to be Traded?
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2019, 09:35:02 AM »
Interesting take hands. I think Josh Jones' problem is too much aggression. I think he believes it doesn't  help him to find and develop that more thoughtful/controlled aggression he needs to thrive in this league shuffling between positions. If JJ were being well represented/mentored he would be encouraged to be patient and believe that with his physical talent his time will come. Sometimes patience is the hardest transition to make for guys like Jones who have instantly been stars at every level prior to the NFL.

One of things that is the most disappointing about Jones when watching the all 22 with him playing is how much he will stand and watch a teammate trying to tackle someone when the play is in front of him. When the ball carrier is his he plays downhill and does a good job of making the play, but the number of plays were a CB misses a tackle or the RB breaks the tackle and Jones has stopped playing are many. Rather than hustling to the play and assisting on the stop or making the stop after the missed tackle, too often the ball carrier gains another 5 or 10 or more yards that didn't need to be given up.