July 19, 2019, 06:29:54 PM

Author Topic: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not  (Read 278 times)

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Online ricky

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Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« on: July 08, 2019, 08:00:11 PM »
There has been a fair amount of discussion of Rodgers holding the ball too long. Well, one guy believes he's "easy to sack" and explains why. But later in the article, stats paint a different picture. Whatever. Get rid of the ball sooner, Aaron! Please?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/07/08/bengals-carl-lawson-says-aaron-rodgers-is-easy-to-sack/
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Offline craig

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 07:13:32 AM »
"He was sacked 49 times in 597 attempts, meaning he threw about 12 passes for every time he was sacked. League-wide, there were about 14 passes thrown for each sack. So he typically isn’t a lot easier to sack for the rest of the NFL. Even if he is for Lawson."

Hard to know without the statistical distribution?  Often in NFL stats, there is very tight bunching towards the median.  So I don't know, maybe 12 vs 14 is one or two standard deviations on the high-sack side?  Beats me. 

Sacks is one thing; throwing-the-ball-out-of-bounds is another.  Clearly it doesn't have the negative yardage associated with a sack.  But it's another case of a play with zero yardage and zero chance of yardage or converting a first down once that decision is made. 

Yards and field position matter greatly.  But in terms of simplistic change-of-possession consideration, both punts and INT's change possession. 

Defenses love to get offenses to 3rd downs.  INT, fumble, sack, throw-out-of-bounds, dropped pass, inaccurate pass, short-of-mark completion..., there are just a lot of ways the defense can change possession once an offense gets to 3rd down.  I have no solution.  But I'm sure hoping the offense is going to somehow be uncommonly consistent and efficient on early downs, enough so that TD drives don't need to depend on sequencing multiple 3rd-down conversions. 

This is pretty disconnected from Ricky's link!  But to perhaps tie it back, "get rid of the ball sooner" has considerable merit.  But 3rd down is a special world, and a QB lives (and dies) in the 3rd-down world an awful lot.  If you can BOTH "get rid of the ball sooner" AND complete a pass beyond the mark, by all means Aaron please do so!  And as RT might say, if there are opportunities to open/opening receivers beyond the mark, by all means Aaron please study your play book well enough so that you're prepared to recognize those opportunities and to complete those passes, quickly.  But *IF* it's 3rd down and there is no first-down completion to be had, even by a well-studied hard-working QB, then by all means do NOT just "get rid of the ball"... if doing so is going to result in a punt.  Go ahead, Aaron, hold the ball, improvise, and feel free to try to extend the play in hopes that a first down becomes available.  *IF* you're able to convert that first down somehow, that's effectively a possession for us and not for them; invaluable!

Offline RT

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 08:13:41 AM »
Just a little context to Lawson's hyperbole.

Every team go's into a game with a game plan for a blocking scheme and how much help will be given to each player. The Packers started the 2017 Bengals game with Bakhtiari out with injury and after 47 (70 total for the game) offensive plays Bulaga was knockout of the game and was replaced by McCray. Kyle Murphy started at LT and played all 70 snaps, but when he broke his foot during the game the Packers had no choice but to tough it out with broken footed Murphy and McCray at tackles. Murphy was placed on IR the following day with his broken foot and his season was over.

Yes Lawson had his career day with 2.5 sacks and now 2 years later runs his mouth about how easy sacking Rodgers is, this from a guy who had all of one sack all of last season.He capitalized on his moment of glory, now he can have a great rest of his life talking about that one big game he had as a pro.

The real story here should of been Murphy and the Packers gutting it out with a patchwork OL that day and pulling out a 27-24 win against the Bengals, but that sort of thing doesn't play as well to the lowest denominators like Lawson talking stupid crap about how easy it is to sack Rodgers.

Offline Hands

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 08:33:52 AM »
Just a little context to Lawson's hyperbole.

Every team go's into a game with a game plan for a blocking scheme and how much help will be given to each player. The Packers started the 2017 Bengals game with Bakhtiari out with injury and after 47 (70 total for the game) offensive plays Bulaga was knockout of the game and was replaced by McCray. Kyle Murphy started at LT and played all 70 snaps, but when he broke his foot during the game the Packers had no choice but to tough it out with broken footed Murphy and McCray at tackles. Murphy was placed on IR the following day with his broken foot and his season was over.

Yes Lawson had his career day with 2.5 sacks and now 2 years later runs his mouth about how easy sacking Rodgers is, this from a guy who had all of one sack all of last season.He capitalized on his moment of glory, now he can have a great rest of his life talking about that one big game he had as a pro.

The real story here should of been Murphy and the Packers gutting it out with a patchwork OL that day and pulling out a 27-24 win against the Bengals, but that sort of thing doesn't play as well to the lowest denominators like Lawson talking stupid crap about how easy it is to sack Rodgers.
Well said RT....I remember Alex Karras having a field day against Jerry Kramer, because he was injured but kept playing. The next meeting, Alex hardly made any noise. Show me the player that sacked Rodgers multiple times in a game with the first string oline playing, like Mack, and ask him that question.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 09:32:01 AM »
Just a little context to Lawson's hyperbole.

Every team go's into a game with a game plan for a blocking scheme and how much help will be given to each player. The Packers started the 2017 Bengals game with Bakhtiari out with injury and after 47 (70 total for the game) offensive plays Bulaga was knockout of the game and was replaced by McCray. Kyle Murphy started at LT and played all 70 snaps, but when he broke his foot during the game the Packers had no choice but to tough it out with broken footed Murphy and McCray at tackles. Murphy was placed on IR the following day with his broken foot and his season was over.

Yes Lawson had his career day with 2.5 sacks and now 2 years later runs his mouth about how easy sacking Rodgers is, this from a guy who had all of one sack all of last season.He capitalized on his moment of glory, now he can have a great rest of his life talking about that one big game he had as a pro.

The real story here should of been Murphy and the Packers gutting it out with a patchwork OL that day and pulling out a 27-24 win against the Bengals, but that sort of thing doesn't play as well to the lowest denominators like Lawson talking stupid crap about how easy it is to sack Rodgers.

BRAVO!!

Thank you RT.

Lawson lives in clown world

Online ricky

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 12:40:54 PM »
Just a little context to Lawson's hyperbole.

Every team go's into a game with a game plan for a blocking scheme and how much help will be given to each player. The Packers started the 2017 Bengals game with Bakhtiari out with injury and after 47 (70 total for the game) offensive plays Bulaga was knockout of the game and was replaced by McCray. Kyle Murphy started at LT and played all 70 snaps, but when he broke his foot during the game the Packers had no choice but to tough it out with broken footed Murphy and McCray at tackles. Murphy was placed on IR the following day with his broken foot and his season was over.

Yes Lawson had his career day with 2.5 sacks and now 2 years later runs his mouth about how easy sacking Rodgers is, this from a guy who had all of one sack all of last season.He capitalized on his moment of glory, now he can have a great rest of his life talking about that one big game he had as a pro.

The real story here should of been Murphy and the Packers gutting it out with a patchwork OL that day and pulling out a 27-24 win against the Bengals, but that sort of thing doesn't play as well to the lowest denominators like Lawson talking stupid crap about how easy it is to sack Rodgers.

This may be the single best takedown of an article/player without trash talking I've ever read on this site. Excellent work, sir!
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Offline PackerYakker

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 03:09:54 PM »
Just a little context to Lawson's hyperbole.

Yes Lawson had his career day with 2.5 sacks and now 2 years later runs his mouth about how easy sacking Rodgers is, this from a guy who had all of one sack all of last season.He capitalized on his moment of glory, now he can have a great rest of his life talking about that one big game he had as a pro.

Talk about hyperbole.....

Lawson is in no way, shape or form a 1-game wonder. In fact, he's been one the most successful pass rushers in the entire league over the past 2 seasons. Per PFF, his win rate as a pass rusher is 2nd only to Joey Bosa over that span!! In '17, he had the 2nd highest win rate for a rookie edge rusher in the past 12 seasons. He also had a healthy number of pressures, hits and hurries in '18, despite notching only 1 sack. His pass rush win rate in '18 was 2nd behind only Jerry Hughes. When you remove plays like screens, quick throws, etc., he rates Top 10 from '17-'18 in terms of pass rush grade, win rate and pressure rate.

PFF: "Over the past 2 seasons, Lawson has been nothing short of lights out on the field."

Indeed. Lawson's opinion about Rodgers sackability doesn't change the fact that he's a high quality NFL pass rusher.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 04:46:23 PM »
[It will be on Rodgers and new coach Matt LaFleur to fix the issue in 2019. LaFleur’s new scheme can’t completely take away Rodgers’ improvising style, but more structure in the offense – and less ad-libbing required from the quarterback – could make Rodgers much harder to sack.]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/09/carl-lawson-explains-why-aaron-rodgers-is-an-easier-qb-to-sack/

Online ricky

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 04:52:54 PM »
Talk about hyperbole.....

Lawson is in no way, shape or form a 1-game wonder. In fact, he's been one the most successful pass rushers in the entire league over the past 2 seasons. Per PFF, his win rate as a pass rusher is 2nd only to Joey Bosa over that span!! In '17, he had the 2nd highest win rate for a rookie edge rusher in the past 12 seasons. He also had a healthy number of pressures, hits and hurries in '18, despite notching only 1 sack. His pass rush win rate in '18 was 2nd behind only Jerry Hughes. When you remove plays like screens, quick throws, etc., he rates Top 10 from '17-'18 in terms of pass rush grade, win rate and pressure rate.

PFF: "Over the past 2 seasons, Lawson has been nothing short of lights out on the field."

Indeed. Lawson's opinion about Rodgers sackability doesn't change the fact that he's a high quality NFL pass rusher.

Well, that is certainly interesting. Though there is room for agreement that Lawson's big day was indeed helped a lot by injuries along the OL of the Packers. So, was his big game at least partly because of injuries? Almost certainly. Is he a better player than portrayed? Yes. But I still want Rodgers to get rid of the ball more quickly.
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Offline RT

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Re: Rodgers easier to sack? Maybe not
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 05:30:47 PM »
Just a little context to Lawson's hyperbole.

Yes Lawson had his career day with 2.5 sacks and now 2 years later runs his mouth about how easy sacking Rodgers is, this from a guy who had all of one sack all of last season.He capitalized on his moment of glory, now he can have a great rest of his life talking about that one big game he had as a pro.

Talk about hyperbole.....

Lawson is in no way, shape or form a 1-game wonder. In fact, he's been one the most successful pass rushers in the entire league over the past 2 seasons. Per PFF, his win rate as a pass rusher is 2nd only to Joey Bosa over that span!! In '17, he had the 2nd highest win rate for a rookie edge rusher in the past 12 seasons. He also had a healthy number of pressures, hits and hurries in '18, despite notching only 1 sack. His pass rush win rate in '18 was 2nd behind only Jerry Hughes. When you remove plays like screens, quick throws, etc., he rates Top 10 from '17-'18 in terms of pass rush grade, win rate and pressure rate.

PFF: "Over the past 2 seasons, Lawson has been nothing short of lights out on the field."

Indeed. Lawson's opinion about Rodgers sackability doesn't change the fact that he's a high quality NFL pass rusher.

Benjamin Disraeli: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

I use PFF from time to time to make a point and their information can be helpful at times, but like all statistics when the end results do not match the indicators it is time to step back and ask why. You are claiming that Lawson is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL today, yet he amassed a total of one sack last year. That might be an indicator to step back for a moment and re-think those statistics.

I also notice that you took things out of context to put your spin on it, but I believe it is note worthy that Lawson's only multiple sack game in his career came against a patch worked OL and a OT playing with a broken foot. Something that Lawson does not divulge in his appearance, he even go's as far as suggesting that it was against Bakhtairi when he says, 'He’s got a great left tackle in [David Bakhtiari]'.

I'm suggesting that Lawson is not any kind of special player who may have had his greatest moment in his pro career against the Packers and you are claiming he is one of the great pass rushers in the game today. So now who is really the hyperbolic one in this discussion.