September 14, 2019, 11:16:39 PM

Author Topic: Position look: OL  (Read 2768 times)

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Online craig

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2019, 07:08:28 PM »
We'll see how Turner looks as a guard.  I admit I'll just be happy if he can be a solid, capable guard over the long run, and don't actually expect him to excel there.  There's a notion that he's going to be not only a capable guard, but will actually be preferable at RT to Bulaga next year.  I'm an optimist, but have limited hope that Turner is the long-term solution at RT!  I'll just settle and be thankful if he can be a good guard. 

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2019, 01:57:02 AM »
Turner didn't look good on Thursday, but that was about as stern a test as you could get, and it was week one, with pretty much no preseason with his fellow O linemen. I expect, or at least hope, he plays better down the stretch.

Although he got paid a good chunk of change, I never really expect him to be the Packers starting level RT. I look forward to being wrong.
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Offline RT

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2019, 09:40:43 AM »
Fans seem to want to feel that they are good to go at a position and then channel all their thoughts to fixing another position, but contrary to most fans thought process every position is always in motion. The OL is a good example of this in 2019. With the signing of Turner and drafting of Jenkins many ooze the feelings that the Packers are now set, but much change will probable happen over the next 2 years with 3 or 4 starters being replaced during that timeframe.

At some point this season I expect that Jenkins will takeover the RG spot and if a decent offer comes along for Taylor before the trade deadline the Packers will probably take it if they have not been hit with the injury bug. Bulaga is a FA after this season and their is a very small chance that they re-sign him. Following the 2020 season both Linsley and Bakhtiari will be FA's and it would be no surprise to me if neither one is re-signed to another contract. Add in that Turner's contract is written so that if he is not worth it that the Packers in theory could move on from him as early as next season.

As good as the OL has been the last several years and as deep of unit that it is this season, I do still expect a high end draft pick or two spent on OT's in the 2020 draft. The OL should have another very good season as a unit, but much change is a comin' in the near future. Like every position group on the football team.

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2019, 06:41:31 AM »
agree with RT about the o line being in flux. When you are talking 8-9 guys on one unit, and the Packers philosophy that many of their O line are late picks/free agents, then there is always development.

Light seems to be the replacement for Spriggs, while Madison is in for McCray. Jenkins a replacement for either guard position (or center if required). A high (1st or 2nd round) 2020 draft pick, is the replacement for Bulaga if he is not extended after 2019. Patrick is the current developed backup, his continued presence on the Packers depends whether he rises to at least being a quality backup. If he doesn't, someone new will elevate to that position and he will be gone. Nijman (on the PS) is a roll of the dice to see if he can rise to a quality backup or (long-shot) a starter.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 06:47:19 AM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline RT

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2019, 07:44:55 AM »
Turner didn't look good on Thursday, but that was about as stern a test as you could get, and it was week one, with pretty much no preseason with his fellow O linemen. I expect, or at least hope, he plays better down the stretch.

Although he got paid a good chunk of change, I never really expect him to be the Packers starting level RT. I look forward to being wrong.

Agree that Turner didn't look good pass blocking against the Bears, he ended up with a brutal pass blocking grade of 37.3 from PFF. Hopefully that improves as the season go's on or the pass game will have a hard time getting into sync. It was only one game and the Packers won, but still something to keep an eye on going forward. 

Online craig

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2019, 03:42:55 PM »
I think Turner has perhaps always been much worse in pass-blocking than run-blocking? 

1265, I think there's a difference between churning over the back-of-room guys verses the starters.  I think every position group is turning over it's depth guys.  You better be ascending and on path to earn a lot of snaps, or you'll get replaced by somebody else who might. 

RT was talking about "over the next 2 years with 3 or 4 starters being replaced".  To replace perhaps 4 starters over two years is something different.  I don't think Jenkins taking over a guard spot will be a big surprise; 2nd-round pick, to be expected. 

Turning over both Bulaga and Taylor after this season, then turning over Bakhi after next year, that would be pretty serious business.  My thought with that is I really don't believe we've got the guys on the present roster to be replacing Bulaga this year and Bakhti next.  Light?  Practice-squad guys?  *IF* we do turn over Bulaga and then Bakhti, that's a lot of pressure on the D+D program.   

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2019, 04:32:22 PM »
Yeah, I like our line as it is now. The second best we have had for a while, ie not at the level of the Bakhtiari/Lang/Linsley/Sitton/Bulaga group, but still pretty good. how far the backups progress is a question mark. Few thought Taylor would replace Lang and be as good as he was.

The only starter I fear replacing is Bakhtiari. LT is the toughest position to fill, especially with how good DB is. RT is no cakewalk either and I expect it needs a high pick next to replace Bulaga, not a D&D project. It's an expensive layout, but necessary for a late-career rodgers.

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Online craig

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2019, 06:25:33 PM »
Question:  MLF is committed to what he refers to as outside zone run scheme. 

Three questions: 
1.  Anybody have a link to a summary of what that actually means?
2.  Anybody want to give a very short synopsis?  I understand zone and one-cut and that; I assume the "outside" literally means running outside, with a bunch of blockers running one way and the back sweeping along behind them until at some point he sees a seam and and makes his one cut, which may or may not be before he sweeps around the outside of all the blockers. 

3.  My main question:  Bakhti and Bulaga have been highly regarded pass-blockers, but they have NEVER been excellent run blockers, from my understanding.  Bakhti never was, and while Bulaga may have been early on when healthy, during the last five years of his career he's never seemed to be a powerful run guy.  So, is outside zone perhaps a doomed concept with B+B as the tackles, and they'll ever be able to execute it effectively?  Or do you guys think they're fine as run blockers?  Or can you do outside zone without any particular need for good run-blocking tackles? 

4.  Secondary question:  how important is tackle-blocking for outside zone?  Lewis is old and is no longer the run-blocker he used to be, he didn't look better than average versus Bears.  And Graham and Tonyan have never been knockout run blockers.  Are we trying to run something when we don't have any of the blockers to make it work? 

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2019, 07:32:13 PM »

Online craig

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2019, 09:18:25 PM »
Thanks, danno!  that's really good and helpful, and pretty much how I'd understood it. 

I'm not sure it gives me any confidence that a line of blockers with Bulaga or Bakhti leading the line is going to be effective; or that having an end of the moving line spearheaded by Bulaga and Graham or Bakhti and Lewis is going to successfully be diagonalling upfield. 

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2019, 03:57:22 AM »
That’s pretty much why (in the “roster going forward” thread) I listed the top two priorities as Combo-TE and OL.

Graham and Lewis are likely gone next year and they need a Combo-TE that can both block and catch to make the RPO part of MLF’s offense work the way they envision it.

Turner may be, because of his athleticism, better suited for RT in this offense. Don’t be surprised if he steps in for BB next year. They drafted well with Jenkins. But they need another athletic LG to take Taylor’s spot.

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Position look: OL
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2019, 01:26:15 PM »
That’s pretty much why (in the “roster going forward” thread) I listed the top two priorities as Combo-TE and OL.

Graham and Lewis are likely gone next year and they need a Combo-TE that can both block and catch to make the RPO part of MLF’s offense work the way they envision it.

I cannot see any good combo TEs in this draft. It isn't a good year for them. the four top guys listed on the Fanspeak simulator are Okwuegbunam (Missouri), Parkinson (Stanford), Pinkney (Vanderbilt), Bushman BYU (ranked between picks 42 to 98). None of those guys are much as blockers. There might be a pur blocker later in the draft, but no combo guys. Might have to look for a veteran if that is what they need.

I rather like Tristan Wirfs  as a RT of the future (he's from Iowa and they have pumped out good O linemen for years)
(ricky) "Personally, I'm putting this in a box, driving a stake through its heart, firing a silver bullet into its (empty) head, nailing it shut, loading it into a rocket and firing it into the sun. "

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