August 24, 2019, 06:08:20 AM

Author Topic: Position look: EDGE  (Read 1657 times)

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Offline RT

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Position look: EDGE
« on: May 28, 2019, 07:22:00 AM »
This group has been completely rebuilt with body types that match what Pettine likes his EDGE players to be. It is probably safe to say that Gute will not be drafting any 240 pound edge rushers as long as Pettine is running the defense. As was the case every place Pettine has been, it is always about a big and physical front 5 and be the bully on the field.

As 1265 pointed out in the DL thread, there are a few EDGE players that will cross back and forth from EDGE and down line play with Rashan Gary and Za’Darius Smith being the most likely to do that.

Locks - Za’Darius Smith, Preston Smith, Rashan Gary, Kyler Fackrell

In the Hunt - Greg Roberts, Kendall Donnerson, Reggie Gilbert

Longshot - Eric Cotton

Like most positions the number of players kept will be the most interesting thing. The Packers opened the season with only 4 last season, a large dropoff from the Capers years of carrying 6 or 7. Is it possible they only keep 4 again this season? How many of the players in the hunt impress in the preseason? A load of money and resources have been added here, now what will the results be. Should be fun to watch.       

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2019, 07:45:50 AM »

Offline RT

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2019, 09:28:30 AM »
I read this and thought this is now the normal in the world we live in. Many writing for stories on the .NET claim to be experts and/or insiders and the truth is that a good percentage don't have a clue of what they are writing. They ramble on just making crap up and pushing it off as facts and that is fine when people know it is crap, but the problem is that the people that don't follow their teams closely lean on them for correct information and it is not. Here is a prime example CBS Sports' NFL draft writer Chris Trapasso.

Chris Trapasso identifying three early-round picks who look like bad fits for the teams that drafted them. One of those players is Packers first-round draft pick Rashan Gary.

Trapasso writes:

This isn't a scheme-fit issue. It's a playing-time concern. Although Mike Pettine's 3-4 base system is constructed to deploy large, long defensive ends and smaller, quicker, more versatile rush linebackers on the edge, the Packers clearly have plans for hybrids on the outside of the front of their scheme, as evidenced by the signings of Za'Darius Smith and Preston Smith in free agency.

They say you can't have too many pass rushers, but it terms of playing time, that's not entirely true. Last year, Clay Matthews led all Packers outside linebackers by playing 71% of the snaps. Kyler Fackrell was on the field for 58.5% of the defensive plays. Reggie Gilbert played 45.6%. So even if the Smiths account for the loss of Matthews -- and first-round flop Nick Perry who's currently a free agent -- that leaves Fackrell, Gilbert, and Gary vying for what's most likely the third-most snaps at the edge-rusher spot. And with more horses at the position this year, Pettine is primed to go even deeper with his rotation at the position in 2019 -- and beyond -- spelling even more of an uphill climb for Gary to find substantial playing time in the few first years of his rookie deal.

In May, I listed Gary as one of the rookies in need of a redshirt season mainly due to his rawness as a pass rusher. And there's a good chance he'll be pushed into a redshirt type of debut NFL season then enter his second season in a crowded edge-rusher room in Green Bay once again, thereby making it difficult for him to live up to the expectations that come with being the No. 12 overall selection in the draft.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2019, 03:06:35 PM »
The quality of CBS reporting on sports (and national outlets in general) , has really taken a nose dive in recent years.

These national guys look at a teams last years roster and then invent their own scenarios of what they'd like to see happen. Pure fantasy!

If you want good/accurate Packer reporting, you have to get tied into WI sports reporters.

Offline B

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2019, 10:28:58 PM »
Right on danno, Redshirt my arse!

Basically, a lazy article, regurgitating uninformed crap he pumped out prior to the draft. Not worth the effort of a click IMO
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They just ran out of time.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 12:51:05 PM »
More good news!

If Gute's foray into FA this year pays dividends like sportwriters/Packer bloggers are talking about, then he will have stepped out of TT's shadow and will have put his own distinct brand on this team.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/zadarius-smith-best-fa-signing-in-green-bay-448

[In his second offseason as GM, Gutekunst addressed just about every glaring weakness on the team’s roster. News broke almost immediately once free agency began that the Packers intended to sign former Ravens pass rusher Za’Darius Smith. With the likely departures of both Nick Perry and Clay Matthews, this move made sense and strengthened a position that had been weak in 2018.
Not 20 minutes later, news broke once more that the Packers were going to bring in safety Adrian Amos, most recently with the Chicago Bears. With Ha Ha Clinton-Dix being traded during the season and Kentrell Brice not receiving his tender, safety was another position of immediate need.
Jump ahead another hour and the Packers have added another edge rusher to the mix, Preston Smith. Three massive free agent acquisitions in about an hour’s time. Gutekunst was serious about exploring all avenues to bolster his roster after a 2018 season that met no one’s standards.
Their last free agent acquisition happened a few hours later, when the Packers brought in Billy Turner to play right guard, the team’s most-needed position along the offensive line.
While the rest of free agency remained quiet, the first day started with a flurry as the Packers grabbed four immediate starters for their team. What did that do? Well, it made sure that Gutekunst and co. were able to draft the best player available rather than drafting for need.
With the team’s first pick of the 2019 NFL Draft, the Packers grabbed an edge rusher they’re hoping only sees the field rotationally to start the year. That says a lot about the way Gutekunst is developing this roster. While the second first-round pick, Darnell Savage, is expected to be a day-one starter for the Packers, he’s about the only player in that role.
Most of the starters in Green Bay were already solidified before the draft even took place, and that attests to Gutekunst’s willingness to build a team through all avenues, not relying as heavily on the draft and develop strategy his predecessor was known for.
What was all of this background information setting up? Well. This is where I segue into telling you that I think Za’Darius Smith is going to be a phenomenal signing for the Green Bay Packers. I think all four of the 2019 free agent acquisitions will be, but here’s my pitch for Za’Darius specifically.
If you look at the players Gutekunst brought to Green Bay, they’re ascending players that were looking for big second contracts. At 26-years-old, these are players that should just be starting to enter the prime of their careers. That will go a long way in solidifying a defense that’s played musical chairs the last few seasons.
Back to Z. Smith. In the short time he’s spent in Titletown, he’s quickly become one of the vocal leaders of the team. He’s learned from some of the best and played on a vaunted Ravens defense that included Terrell Suggs, Eric Weddle, and C.J. Mosley. Now, it’s Smith’s turn to provide that same attitude and energy for Green Bay’s defense.
Consider the swagger coming onto the field between Smith, Mike Daniels, and Jaire Alexander. I’ll take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
But it’s not Smith’s attitude alone that will make a difference in Green Bay. It’s his productivity. While his 8.5 sacks in 2018 don’t leap off the page at you, his pressures sure do. I’ve talked about this before (because I love the stat so much), but Smith lead the league in pressures (60, per PFF) for players with less than 700 snaps.
Something else to consider is the interior pressure that Kenny Clark and Mike Daniels will create, freeing up Smith on the edge (although Smith was equally productive on the interior against guards).
Defensive coordinator Mike Pettine likes to mix up and disguise his blitz packages; having someone like Za’Darius that can play inside or outside will keep opposing offenses guessing all season. Additionally, much of the focus will be on Smith given his total pressures heading into 2019. That will free up guys like Kyler Fackrell and even Rashan Gary when they see the field to make plays.
Before I wrap this up, by no means am I saying I’m any less excited about Adrian Amos, Preston Smith, and Billy Turner. Aaron Rodgers has already expressed loads of confidence in and enthusiasm for Billy Turner. Adrian Amos is a security blanket for the defense. The guy does not make mistakes. And Preston Smith will also create massive amounts of pressure on defense as a player who can line up in a variety of spots.]

Offline RT

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2019, 09:40:20 AM »
The more I watch Rashan Gary the more I see a little bigger and a little faster version of Nick Perry. Some are going to see that as a negative, but I do not, when healthy Perry was a very good player that other teams needed to account for on every play and hopefully Gary can become that type of player in time also. Both play with a high level of physicality and violence and are very good edge setters against the run, but the down side to that style of play is that those types of players are often injured because of the violent nature that they play the game with.

Gary has some work to do to become as good of pass rusher as a healthy Perry was for the Packers, but the ceiling is very high for Gary if he can avoid the injury bug and keep developing his pass rush skills (which he will) he will become a Packers fan favorite.   

Offline Hands

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2019, 06:40:45 AM »
I agree RT, but I'll also add that Gary is a more advanced player then Perry was coming into the league. Gary has embraced the 2-point position and knows what is expected of him. I'm not sure Perry ever did. I've never seen Perry close-up as I have Gary, but Gary's suddenness and strength seems off the charts to me.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2019, 07:29:56 AM »
Looking strictly at Combine measurables, Gary vs Perry are very very similar.

Height/Weight:
Gary - 6-4/277
Perry - 6-3/271

40 dash:
Gary - 4.58 (10 yard split - 1.61)
Perry - 4.64 (10 yard split - 1.57)

Bench:
Gary - 26
Perry - 35

Vertical:
Gary - 38"
Perry - 38.5"

Broad:
Gary - 120"
Perry - 124"

3-Cone:
Gary - 7.26
Perry - 7.25

20 Shuttle:
Gary - 4.29
Perry - 4.66

A lot of similarities, No?

But what I see as a deciding difference between these two players is that Gary has more positional versatility than Nick Perry. Gary, like teammate Zadarius Smith, has played both on the edge and the interior DL. Perry, who played DE at USC and Edge at GB, was never suited to play on the interior.

This difference in these two players is what will set Gary apart from Perry in the long run. Pettine's defense relies/needs players that can be moved around to create confusion in the minds of opposing offenses blocking schemes. It's a giant chess game, and if you have a bunch of "queens" as opposed to "rooks" you then have the advantage.

Online craig

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2019, 07:47:39 AM »
Perry was exactly who I thought of in the first 48 hours after the draft.  Big, physical run-stop set-the-edge guy, with some bull-rush power, and capable of the occasional sack.  But probably without the quickness and flexibility to be a great pass-rusher.

The healthy-version of Perry was a solid NFL player, even if not a pass-rush thriller.  Perry like Gary had terrific combine numbers for speed and stuff.  On a couple of straight-line chase-the-QB plays during his career, the combine speed was evident.  But in the short-area quickness of out-quicking and beating tackles, his flexibility and quickness were not pass-rush special.  His occasional sacks tended to be strength-and-effort persistence sacks. 

Gary may be like Perry in that while his combine times look good, that the game short-area quickness may be less impressive?  But perhaps being a lot healthier, a little stronger, and a little quicker, perhaps his pass-pressure will be noticeably better?  Being an upscaled version of the occasionally healthy Perry could be a solid value for pick #12.

A narrative with Gary has been "boom-or-bust" pick.  I don't see that at all.  Every NFL player has injury-based bust capacity, for sure.  But I see a healthy Gary as having a very safe run-defender conservative floor, the odds of non-injured "bust" are not very high.  I likewise probably think the odds of "boom", being a super-star pass-rusher, are also probably not that high.  But, certainly that is a possibility worth hoping for!

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 10:57:14 AM »
craig, my non boom/bust feeling is just the same as yours. My floor for Gary was Nick Perry. I don't expect an outright bust (barring injury), just something between Perry (floor) and an agile Jadeveon Clowney (ceiling).
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Offline RT

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2019, 06:45:45 AM »
Everyone seems to list Randy Ramsey as an EDGE player, but I don't think they will make the same mistake they made with Vince Biegel and wait to move him to the inside in Pettine's defense. Ramsey is not build to play on the edge for Pettine.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2019/7/17/20697486/packers-2019-training-camp-roster-zadarius-and-preston-smith-anchor-new-olb-group

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2019/7/17/20698035/packers-2019-roster-predictions-kyler-fackrell-returns-to-backup-role-after-breakout-season


Offline dannobanano

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 08:52:01 AM »
Everyone seems to list Randy Ramsey as an EDGE player, but I don't think they will make the same mistake they made with Vince Biegel and wait to move him to the inside in Pettine's defense. Ramsey is not build to play on the edge for Pettine.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2019/7/17/20697486/packers-2019-training-camp-roster-zadarius-and-preston-smith-anchor-new-olb-group

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2019/7/17/20698035/packers-2019-roster-predictions-kyler-fackrell-returns-to-backup-role-after-breakout-season

Do you see him as making the 53? That would be a real revelation! More power to him.

Being on the PS for a year and then making a run at a roster spot might be more realistic, but you never know?

After Martinez and Burks, you have Summers, Crawford, and Sheldon all making a push for a roster spot.


Add in Ramsey, and this will become a very intersting group to watch.

Offline RT

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2019, 09:55:23 AM »
Everyone seems to list Randy Ramsey as an EDGE player, but I don't think they will make the same mistake they made with Vince Biegel and wait to move him to the inside in Pettine's defense. Ramsey is not build to play on the edge for Pettine.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2019/7/17/20697486/packers-2019-training-camp-roster-zadarius-and-preston-smith-anchor-new-olb-group

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2019/7/17/20698035/packers-2019-roster-predictions-kyler-fackrell-returns-to-backup-role-after-breakout-season

Do you see him as making the 53? That would be a real revelation! More power to him.

Being on the PS for a year and then making a run at a roster spot might be more realistic, but you never know?

After Martinez and Burks, you have Summers, Crawford, and Sheldon all making a push for a roster spot.


Add in Ramsey, and this will become a very intersting group to watch.

I think Ramsey is one of the longer longshots on the 90 with having a chance at making the 53. But like with Biegel, if they wait to long to switch him they will not get a very good evaluation of what he can do. I forget who said it on the coaching staff, but someone said that it was a mistake not moving Biegel inside in Pettine's defense from the start of training camp. They waited until the last week of training camp with Biegel and it was not enough time to evaluate him there.

Ramsey is not built to make it on the edge for Pettine, but could be an interesting blitzing prospect from the inside.   

Online craig

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Re: Position look: EDGE
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 10:01:59 AM »
Agree fully with your point, RT.  No future on edge, remote-but-not-impossible future inside.  So no point in wasting reps on edge; the sooner he gets into the ILB room the better chance he has to learn how to do it and to show whether he's got any aptitude. 

They practice so very little as is, that if a guy is trying to transition to a new position, he needs all the chance he can get.  Do it right away so he gets as much opportunity as the modest number of hours of practice in camp can allow.