July 19, 2019, 06:45:30 PM

Author Topic: Kizer: Confident or delusional?  (Read 526 times)

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Online ricky

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Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« on: July 03, 2019, 02:22:25 PM »
Saw this at PFT, and this is the slow time, so... It seems that DeShone Kizer has unlimited confidence (if, so far, extremely limited success), going so far as to say he expects to be a Super Bowl MVP. So, good for him. But first he'll have to show enough to beat out Boyle to back up Rodgers. This article is more amusing than serious, IMO. Just trying to keep the conversation lively!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/07/03/deshone-kizer-im-not-limiting-myself-to-being-a-backup/
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Online The GM

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2019, 06:59:02 PM »
I get your point Ricky.  I have the same response to all these articles and fluff pieces. 

Don't tell me, show me.

Offline B

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2019, 09:10:56 PM »
For Christ sake, what's wrong with Kizer believing in himself?

Kiser has plenty to prove, but I assure you he will never get there if he gives up and stops believing in himself.

Kurt Warner won a Super Bowl MVP and a place in the Hall of Fame after being cut by the Packers. After his release, he stocked shelves at a Hy-Vee grocery store in Cedar Falls for $5.50 an hour, returned to Northern Iowa and as a graduate assistant coach with the football team, while still hoping to get another tryout with an NFL team.

When no NFL team was willing to give him a chance, Warner turned to the Arena Football League signing with Iowa Barnstormers.   

I'm sure plenty of people called him delusional often on his path to the Hall of Fame.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 09:11:45 PM by B »
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Offline Hands

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2019, 06:33:39 AM »
Kizer can talk all he wants and makes for articles during the NFL dead time. The reality of the situation is that once the season begins...fans have long memories and what he said will come up everytime he throws an interception or fumbles the ball.
I wonder what happened to people who used to follow the old adages "action speaks louder than words" or "speak softly and carry a big stick" and of course the Texan one "all hat and no cattle". Kizer has a lot to prove, and he should try it with both feet out of his mouth!
In the land of the blind.....the one eye man is king!

Offline craig

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2019, 07:29:13 AM »
Thought his comments were fine.  Very brief comments extracted from an interview, and with some lead-up question(s) that weren't reflected.  But key for me was his phrased "when I’m playing my best ball....." in the first quoted sentence.  That's the key.  His job is to prepare himself to play his best more often.  He's played little and hasn't played his best yet.  Who knows if he ever will be able to with consistency?  But I'd like to see whether he can reach a place where he can consistently play at his best; he might be pretty good?  To date it's hard to figure that either his accuracy or his vision/processing are good enough.  But a couple of completions, a better supporting cast around, some completions, and who knows? 

Obviously the NFL is the home of braggadacio and big, over-inflated egos, so he may fit in well there.  But I'd love to see him look good and be a player who's a good backup with the chance to be a competent starter. 

What's he supposed to say? "No, I don't ever want to be a starter or to play well in a Super Bowl.  I see myself as a marginal backup QB with no chance or aspiration to become good enough or consistent enough to actually play or win games..." 

Offline RT

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2019, 07:55:22 AM »
I'm with B here, Rich Gannon would be another example. What did people want him to say there? Someone ask a question in an interview and he gave a confident answer, just like I would hope he would. He didn't say that he was the greatest QB or anything outlandish, he only spoke of a goal that every QB in the NFL should have. My concern would be if he didn't have those types of goals and wasn't striving to be the best he could be. A goal without a plan of hard work to achieve it is only a wish, hopefully he is putting in the hard work to actually give his goal a chance.

The most interesting thing about the article is reading the comments at the end. Only 2 out of 21 comments have a clue and one person that does seem to have a clue received the most thumbs down for his comment. I am hopeful that comment section is not a reflection of society as a whole, but is a closet magnet for idiots.     

Online ricky

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2019, 09:51:39 AM »
Confidence is always good. When it is warranted. But when, for example, I talked to a middle school student (many years ago) as to why he wasn't doing any work in any of his classes, he said he was waiting until he went to college, and then he'd really work hard and be an excellent student. But before college? Why waste his time?

Kizer has yet to win a regular season game, and will have to fight to remain a backup to Rodgers. Might he suddenly excel once he gets a chance? So far, there is no indication he is a capable starter. So, sure, he should dream and aspire. But in the real world, unless he can show he is capable of being a winning QB, he will be a non-entity once he retires. And so far, he hasn't shown that spark of being able to put the mental part of the game into practice in the NFL. He needs to be able to read defenses much more quickly, and make decisions in split seconds while being pressured by the defense, analyzing the potential receivers and making a good decision as to whether throw the ball to someone, throw it away or try to run for yardage. And that just scratches the surface of what the QB needs to do in literally two or three seconds. He has the physical tools; does he have the mental ability?
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline craig

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2019, 11:27:36 AM »
Obviously Kizer will need to demonstrate effectiveness, for sure.  Has he done so yet, obviously not.  Is it likely that he'll develop into a good QB, of course the odds are slim.  I certainly think it's unlikely that he's ever going to emerge.

That said, I do think a negative argument I've seen should not be accepted too strongly.  That being the argument based on what we saw in his two Packers games.  (He was 21 starting for a bad Cleveland team; so I'm not sure how much we can conclude for his future based off of that either.  But my point here is the two Packers views.) 

For the Packers, he played in only two games, a very small and inadequate sample from which to make conclusions.  In the Bears game, he threw only 7 passes, against a fearsome Bears rush that had been already gobbling our offensive line and had made Rodgers look completely ineffectual that first half as well, before Kizer got in.  That was a really bad matchup, the pressure was flying in from every direction.  To make many long-term conclusions based on that handful of plays would be premature.   If we were going to use that first-half against that fearsome Bears pass-rush, we'd likewise conclude that Rodgers also lacks the tools to be an effective NFL starter? 

The other game was the season-ending stinker against Detroit.  Again, Detroit's defense was already dominating us even before Kizer came in. Rodgers had gotten sacked and had picked up only 25 yards on 6 passing attempts, so counting the negative sack-yardage it was 13 yards per 6 passing plays. The Packers as a team looked terrible, unmotivated and outmatched in that game.  Lots of deep-subs playing in that game.  Given the personnel and effort-level he had playing around him, I'm not sure that was really the best sample for drawing conclusions either.   

Exhibition games and practice, the general view tends to be a guy who isn't accurate.  So probably he'll never have NFL accuracy, I get that strong probability.  I've just saying the brief viewings against Bears and Lions last year aren't really proof negative.  **IF** we were to start getting some camp reports that he's throwing accurately in camp, and **IF** we saw some accurate throws in exhibition games, optimist me could easily be persuaded to start hoping again!  :)

Online The GM

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2019, 12:31:50 PM »
Not ready to throw Kizer out just yet, but I find most QBs and even other positions,  a player has to flash some ability when he gets the chance. Maybe he does in this coming training camp and preseason?  Guess we'll find out, but to answer Ricky's question its possible to be both confident and delusional.  Sometime's that's what it takes.     

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2019, 12:55:44 PM »
I'm with B and RT on this subject. It's just too early to make the call that Kizer is living a pipe dream with what he said. There's nothing wrong with him believing in himself.

It's no secret that he entered the draft too early coming out of Notre Dame...........

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000797133/article/brian-kelly-deshone-kizer-should-have-stayed-in-school
[Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly isn't any more sure about DeShone Kizer's readiness for the NFL than some of Kizer's critics.
"Well, he still should be in college. The circumstances are such that you have to make business decisions and he felt like it was in his best interest," Kelly said. "I'm going to support him and his decision. But the reality of it is he needs more football, he needs more time to grow in so many areas. Not just on the field, but off the field."
"He's got to be able to have that attention to detail and that focus. He's got to be smart. He's got to have the ability to grind and a great attitude. He's got those traits, but they've got to be continuously worked on," Kelly said.
"Whoever takes DeShone, he's not a finished product in those areas. But when he does get more time to work on those traits, you're got to have a great young man and a great quarterback. The skills are out there. You can see them. You just go to his workout and you can see that he's got those skills. He's just not complete yet."]

I'm not here to say that Kizer will be the next Favre or Brees (both of whom had very rocky starts to their respective NFL careers, btw).

I'm just saying that Kizer's future isn't written yet. He came into the league very young (age 21), and as a very unfinished product. Only time will tell.

With some more "seasoning" and the right coach/mentor, no one can say with certainty that he's (at best) a career backup QB.

Online ricky

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 05:12:03 PM »
I'm just saying that Kizer's future isn't written yet. He came into the league very young (age 21), and as a very unfinished product. Only time will tell.

With some more "seasoning" and the right coach/mentor, no one can say with certainty that he's (at best) a career backup QB.

True, we should be careful about whether Kizer has the ability to grasp the intricacies of being an NFL QB. But history tells us a story of many, many young QB's who never made it. Will Kizer be the exception? And if he does blossom, will it be with the Packers? You mentioned Favre and Brees- both of whom had a restart in a different environment with a different team. But this would be Kizer's third team, and MM was often lauded for his ability to develop QB's. Am I writing him off? Nope. But he has a legimate chance of not even being the backup to Rodgers this season. The exhibition games will be critical to both him and Boyle. It will be interesting to see how the team handles the rotation. Will Rodgers play more to get more in sync with the new system? Will a new system benefit either of the backups?

And, yes, this thread has officially made a new turn, if anyone is interested in discussing the possibilities. Again, just trying to keep the conversation lively!
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline craig

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2019, 06:10:46 PM »
I think the point about snaps and usage in camp will be interesting, Ricky.  In past I think MM and Rodgers figured he didn't need any practice and could turn it on when the season starts.  The priority was on injury-avoidance, and partly on evaluating the back-of-the-roster guys. 

The new coach and new system complicates that equation, I think.  Injury-avoidance remains a super-critical issue for absolutely certain.  But I'd imagine that tuning up the offense really will be lots more important than in recent years. 

So I do hope that Rodgers and the core guys on offense do play a lot more in preseason. 

Online The GM

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2019, 06:56:37 PM »
I think it will depend on Rodgers understanding of the offense. If he has it down, I believe the preseason game snaps will be similar to previous years

Of course, if hes changing all the plays, it wont matter if he knows the offense or not :P
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 07:00:21 PM by The GM »

Online ricky

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Re: Kizer: Confident or delusional?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2019, 10:24:29 AM »
I think it will depend on Rodgers understanding of the offense. If he has it down, I believe the preseason game snaps will be similar to previous years

Of course, if hes changing all the plays, it wont matter if he knows the offense or not :P

I agree. But wouldn't it be nice to have get some competitive snaps against defenses he hasn't thrown against before? Wouldn't it be a good thing to get down some timing with his receivers? Even vanilla defenses against guys who won't be on the team when the season starts might be helpful. Also, if Rodgers does show a tendency to opt out of too many plays, this would give him and MLF some time to iron out any problems before the real games begin.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid