December 01, 2020, 01:12:32 AM

Author Topic: How to watch the election returns  (Read 873 times)

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Offline ricky

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2020, 03:22:17 PM »
What is the hope of the Trumpers? To get this to the SCOTUS, where six members can overturn the votes of millions of Americans, and give Trump another term in office. It worked before.
Are you implying that the 2000 election result and decision was unfair?
I have no desire to go back to that election, or the way it was decided. Let's stick with the present. Where Trump and his minions were setting up these claims of fraud/malfeasance months before the election happened. Trump and his people have managed to pre-program millions of people to expect fraud. Did they ever offer even a scintilla of proof? Nope. Just made statements about how mail in ballots were bad, could be manipulated; and even voting in person could be fraudulent, because people could vote once, go to their car and put on a different hat, and vote again. Because that apparently is how voting works. Interestingly, Trump himself votes by mail, and has done so for years. This is all a matter of statements being made that are factual, versus opinions.

Factual statement: Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback of the Packers.

Opinion: Aaron Rodgers is the best quarterback in the NFC.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 03:23:27 PM by ricky »
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Offline The GM

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2020, 03:29:30 PM »
Sidney Powell claims, Part 2: https://www.salon.com/2020/11/19/never-sent-us-any-evidence-even-tucker-carlson-called-out-trump-lawyers-voter-fraud-conspiracies_partner/
.
Powell is either going to prove her case in court or she's not.  She'll provide enough evidence or she wont.  Tucker Carlson isn't a judge or jury or even close to it. 

Offline iarwain

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2020, 05:36:49 PM »
Powell is either going to prove her case in court or she's not.  She'll provide enough evidence or she wont.  Tucker Carlson isn't a judge or jury or even close to it.
That's pretty much the way I feel about it.  She's either going to produce the evidence or not, and the clock is ticking. 
If she can't produce it, she's going to end up looking like a nut to many, but I guess you have to remember she's a paid lawyer. 

You can't really blame people for being suspicious about the election results though.  The right does not trust the media or the left as they have demonstrated that they hate Trump and the right at such an extreme and self righteous level that it doesn't seem like a stretch that they would cheat during an election to get rid of him.  There is no journalism in the country anymore, there's only propaganda.

Offline ricky

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2020, 09:29:27 PM »
larwain asked about the recount in Florida in 2020. Here is what caused the recount to stop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
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Offline claymaker

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2020, 10:29:17 PM »
I'm not sold on the idea that enough fraud was committed to overturn the election. The media likes to play the sleight of hand game where they subliminally acknowledge voter fraud in elections but maintain it isn't a threat to their integrity. There has been real evidence and witnesses of voter fraud to surface only to be censored by the establishment and shouted down by the mob as a "conspiracy" theories. I think where most people who question the results have trouble accepting it is the unknown and the lack of interest by their opposition to seek the truth. They get tied up in pointing the finger at one side and ostracize themselves from the mainstream conversations. It's not so much the results that anger them it's the blissful ignorance by the victors. Eventually some of them resent the system and society so much they stop listening, stop communicating their ideas and begin the spiral of violence.

IDK what the next 4 years will be like, and I don't think a Biden presidency changes anything of substance. The political system is awful and America will suffer with or without Donald Trump because of it.

Offline The GM

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2020, 12:06:14 PM »
Powell is either going to prove her case in court or she's not.  She'll provide enough evidence or she wont.  Tucker Carlson isn't a judge or jury or even close to it.
That's pretty much the way I feel about it.  She's either going to produce the evidence or not, and the clock is ticking. 
If she can't produce it, she's going to end up looking like a nut to many, but I guess you have to remember she's a paid lawyer. 

You can't really blame people for being suspicious about the election results though.  The right does not trust the media or the left as they have demonstrated that they hate Trump and the right at such an extreme and self righteous level that it doesn't seem like a stretch that they would cheat during an election to get rid of him.  There is no journalism in the country anymore, there's only propaganda.

I'm highly suspicious of the election results, but I'm more interested in the truth.  If Biden actually won, we need to move on.    A guy who sat in his basement and came out to do 2 parking lot campaign stops a week smells awful fishy.  We'll see how it plays out. 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 12:09:25 PM by The GM »

Offline iarwain

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2020, 01:47:37 PM »
I'm highly suspicious of the election results, but I'm more interested in the truth.  If Biden actually won, we need to move on.
Agreed, but I'm most interested in the way these elections are tallied.  If they place poll watchers in a corral where they are 150 feet away from many of the people handling the ballots, what is even the point of having poll watchers?  I don't like the idea of not verifying signatures on the mail in ballots, surely anyone can see where that might create a problem?  Whether there was widespread fraud or not, these practices certainly set up a situation where it could occur, and they need to be corrected.  I get the impression the Democrats do not want those restrictions, however, and that adds to the suspicion.

Offline ricky

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2020, 02:13:37 PM »
I'm highly suspicious of the election results, but I'm more interested in the truth.  If Biden actually won, we need to move on.
Agreed, but I'm most interested in the way these elections are tallied.  If they place poll watchers in a corral where they are 150 feet away from many of the people handling the ballots, what is even the point of having poll watchers?

Where did you get "150 feet away..."? Here is how it worked in Philadelphia, a major area of accusations of fraud:

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2020/11/05/philadelphia-court-decision-poll-watchers-now-allowed-within-6-feet-of-ballot-counting-at-pennsylvania-convention-center/

I'll save you the time of reading the link. The courts moved the poll watchers from 15 (not 150) feet away to 6 (six) feet away.



 I don't like the idea of not verifying signatures on the mail in ballots, surely anyone can see where that might create a problem?  Whether there was widespread fraud or not, these practices certainly set up a situation where it could occur, and they need to be corrected.

So, do they verify signatures on mail in ballots? Absolutely. And how is this done? By people who are trained, and they are verified by two people- one Republican, one Democrat. Where did you get the idea that signatures weren't being checked?

https://co.grand.co.us/DocumentCenter/View/8534/02-Mini-Life-of-the-Ballot---Signature-Verification?bidId=


 I get the impression the Democrats do not want those restrictions, however, and that adds to the suspicion.

Biden has now been declared the winner in all the states he won. This included a hand recount in Georgia. When the tallies still showed Biden being the winner, Republicans asked for a machine recount. Apparently, you keep on recounting the votes until you get the outcome you want.


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Offline iarwain

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2020, 03:51:31 PM »
Where did you get "150 feet away..."?
I was watching some of the Pennsylvania hearing today.  The poll watcher testifying said the corral was 15 away from the closest desk where the votes were being counted, but there also desks on the far side of the room that were 150 feet away.

Where did you get the idea that signatures weren't being checked?
There is so much disinformation floating around regarding this election, and some of it just being blacked out altogether, it's hard to tell what is true and what isn't.  But I have heard numerous sources throughout all this say that signature verification was not required.  The below link is just one of them.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article247083467.html

Biden has now been declared the winner in all the states he won. This included a hand recount in Georgia. When the tallies still showed Biden being the winner, Republicans asked for a machine recount. Apparently, you keep on recounting the votes until you get the outcome you want.
Where did I say Biden was not the winner?  I said I have some problems with the way the tallies are conducted.  I would like to see them made more secure, so that everyone can be confident that the process is legitimate.  Why would anyone have a problem with that?

Offline ricky

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2020, 04:24:11 PM »
larwain, so a poll watcher alleged that some desks were 150 feet away- but the "corral"; is that where the votes were being counted? Please clarify this, because it seems important; so, the "corral" was 15 feet away, but some desks were up to 150 feet away. Were votes being counted there? Seriously, get back to me on this. Because your original charge was that poll watchers were 150 feet away, although the were ten times closer.

Is there a lot of disinformation floating around about this election? Absolutely! But this disinformation campaign has been going on for literally months. Unfounded allegations, outright lies and spreading disinformation is to be expected in politics. That's why you need to have your "BS sensor" on high when reading this stuff. And North Carolina (which was won by Trump, BTW) doesn't authenticate write in votes? But does that mean they're not being careful about the mail in ballots? An excerpt from the article you linked:

North Carolina has several requirements to prevent fraud with mail-in ballots, says Patrick Gannon, spokesman for the State Board of Elections. For starters, the ballots are only sent to registered voters who have used an official form or virtual portal to request one.

And voters are required to mark their ballots in front of a witness, who is also required to sign the envelope attesting to the voter’s identity. In previous years, two witnesses were required, but the General Assembly reduced the requirement to one this year because of the pandemic. North Carolina is one of only 11 states to require notary or witness signatures on mail-in ballot envelopes, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.


Sounds like they could add another layer of verification. Fine with me. I have no problem with verifying voters. Even though Trump earlier had claimed that people routinely voted multiple times- that they'd vote once, got to their car, change into a different hat/coat or do something else to disguise themselves, and vote again. If you've ever voted in person, you know how absurd this is, but maybe we should have fingerprint verification. I'm sure no one would object to this as a way to prevent fraud.

And, no, you haven't specifically said Biden was not elected. You just keep doubting the election was fair and honest, which is the same thing. Trump did the same thing when he first ran in 2016, as you can read here:

First, he has said the nation could face a messy fight around the election results themselves. Trump declined to promise at the final presidential debate that he would accept the election results regardless of outcome. “I’ll keep you in suspense,” he said. The following day at a rally in Ohio, he elaborated: “I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election — if I win,” he said.

So in the event of a Trump loss, he’s hinted at challenging the results or calling for a re-count similar to 2000. “If Al Gore or George Bush had agreed three weeks before the election and waived their right to a challenge or a re-count, there would be no Supreme Court case,” Trump argued in Ohio. “In effect, I’m being asked to waive centuries of legal precedent designed to protect the voters.” (TIME’s David Von Drehle explains here why Trump’s comparison to the 2000 election doesn’t hold up.)

Trump surrogate Roger Stone has gone further, saying there will be a “bloodbath” if Democrats “steal” the election.


Link to full article: https://time.com/4560707/donald-trump-election-loss-rigged/

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Offline iarwain

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2020, 06:54:50 PM »
larwain, so a poll watcher alleged that some desks were 150 feet away- but the "corral"; is that where the votes were being counted? Please clarify this, because it seems important; so, the "corral" was 15 feet away, but some desks were up to 150 feet away. Were votes being counted there? Seriously, get back to me on this. Because your original charge was that poll watchers were 150 feet away, although the were ten times closer.
The "corral" was the place where the poll watchers were confined to.  I've seen many videos of this, there's an area of the room that is barricaded in with what looks like bike racks.  The poll watchers had to stay in this area.  The corral was located within 15 feet of some desks, but it was a big room, and there were votes also being counted on the other side of the large room, 150 feet away.

Obviously they're not going to be able to see what is going on 150 feet away.  If they had my eyes, they wouldn't be able to read anything on a paper 15 feet away either, but I digress.  Anyway, these aren't my claims, they're claims from people who were there.  There are hundreds of such claims floating around, many in affidavit form.  I wasn't there, so who knows what is true and what isn't?  I don't trust the news media, they've been lying to us for years.  Furthermore, they treat people coming from my philosophical side with contempt and disdain.  Why would I trust them?

And, no, you haven't specifically said Biden was not elected. You just keep doubting the election was fair and honest, which is the same thing.
I'm sure there was some fraud going on.  Was it on a scale large enough to tip the election?  I have no way of knowing.  There are some things that look pretty strange, if they are true.  Guiliani today referred to a chart where there was a batch of votes with Biden having 570,000 votes to Trump's 3200. 
Similarly, Georgia supposedly has a historical rejection rate of 3% for mail in ballots.  But this year, with so many more mail in ballots, and many voters using mail in ballots for the first time, the rejection rate was 0.3%.  These numbers seem highly improbable.   

Covid allowed for these mass mail in ballots, and that's where a lot of the suspicion comes from.  And the Democrats almost exclusively benefited from it, so of course they want to make it common practice.

Offline The GM

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2020, 09:44:46 AM »
I'm highly suspicious of the election results, but I'm more interested in the truth.  If Biden actually won, we need to move on.
Agreed, but I'm most interested in the way these elections are tallied.  If they place poll watchers in a corral where they are 150 feet away from many of the people handling the ballots, what is even the point of having poll watchers?  I don't like the idea of not verifying signatures on the mail in ballots, surely anyone can see where that might create a problem?  Whether there was widespread fraud or not, these practices certainly set up a situation where it could occur, and they need to be corrected.  I get the impression the Democrats do not want those restrictions, however, and that adds to the suspicion.

This election has a Lance Armstrong smell to it.   IMO there is no way Joe Biden got 80 million votes, perhaps it will be proven , perhaps it wont, but we are talking about Joe Biden here.  He got more votes than any presidential candidate in history??? Joe Biden???  C'mon,  I'm not buying that.     

Offline ricky

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2020, 10:13:38 AM »
This election has a Lance Armstrong smell to it.   IMO there is no way Joe Biden got 80 million votes, perhaps it will be proven , perhaps it wont, but we are talking about Joe Biden here.  He got more votes than any presidential candidate in history??? Joe Biden???  C'mon,  I'm not buying that.   

Donald Trump got almost 74 million votes??? Donald Trump??? C'mon, I'm not buying that.

Actually, I am "buying" the election results. The states, after a thorough review of votes, and having multiple ways to prevent any kind of massive fraud, are certifying the results. Many of these are Republicans vouching for a fair election that Trump lost. I know how you feel- I felt the same way when Hillary (a TERRIBLE candidate) lost. But I didn't accuse anyone of stealing the election; I didn't demand recounts, and Clinton didn't charge fraud, malfeasance or ask for recounts. She conceded with as much dignity as she could muster, though the defeat must have been extremely bitter for her. You're writing about feelings and beliefs. Maybe you should have voted for Marianne Williamson. 
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Offline The GM

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2020, 12:55:36 PM »
 The Dems spent 3 frickin years and millions of taxpayer dollars drumming up their fake Russian election hoax. Hillary Clinton is still whining about the election today.   

They never challenged or complained????   Delusional!!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 01:43:35 PM by The GM »

Offline ricky

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Re: How to watch the election returns
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2020, 03:39:44 PM »
The Dems spent 3 frickin years and millions of taxpayer dollars drumming up their fake Russian election hoax. Hillary Clinton is still whining about the election today.   

All American spy agencies reported that the Russians attempted to sway the 2016 election for Trump. Trump himself publicly called for the Russians to hack the DNC. Yes, he was probably joking. Except literally the next day, the DNC was hacked by Russians. Oops. And the pardoning of Michael Flynn? After he pleaded guilty twice to lying under oath about contacts with Russian agents?

In one of the calls, Flynn asked Kislyak — whose communications were being monitored — whether Russia would hold off on retaliatory sanctions against the U.S. because Trump would reverse the Obama administration's sanctions punishing Russia for election meddling.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-pardons-michael-flynn-who-twice-pleaded-guilty-lying-fbi-n1249031

They never challenged or complained????   Delusional!!

I wrote that I didn't accuse anyone of stealing the election. I also said that Clinton never asked for a recount. She didn't, not in any court. Oddly enough, Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate asked for a recount in Wisconsin, though she only got around 1-2% of the vote. Trump had some harsh words for this sore loser:

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/26/donald-trump-blasts-jill-stein-scam-recount-effort-issues-call-to-accept-results.html

Meanwhile. Trump continues to ask his supporters for money, supposedly to help in challenging the election results. But if you read the fine print (and you should ALWAYS read the fine print!), any money left over would be used to retire Trump's campaign debts, and for him and the RNC to use as they please.

https://apnews.com/article/money-donald-trump-election-defense-flow-d533491164bd4cae7ac47392ca740c7d


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